Talk:Melodic hardcore

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there is a large population of bands sprouting from the north-eastern United States. It might help to note in text. bands-to-add: Sinking Ships Go It Alone Comeback Kid (add more if you have more) 24.4.12.213 09:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I added a distinction between melodic-metal core and Hard-core.

I find it useless. They are like day and night. by Geekermo.

I'd say that Husker Du is post hardcore... which sits niceley between emo and melodic hardcore.

It may be a good idea to make the distinction between Melodic Hardcore and Melodic/Hardcore. I personally found it rather confusing.


Contents

[edit] Husker Du?

Maybe I'm way off..but...Husker Du is barely a punk band. Can they really be considered a melodic hardcore band???

Not really, they are post-hardcore...New Wave some may say. They started the emo thing. by Geekermo.


-krm

Husker Du was definitely a punk band, at least up to Flip Your Wig, and arguably beyond that. Their early work is hardcore, and circa Zen Arcade they could certainly be classified as a melodic hardcore band. Nick 03:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Husker Du was a punk rock band through the 1980s. With the more melodic aspect that emerged in their sound, they basically helped create alternative rock. There's many references for this. However, please provide one that describes them as a part of this "melodic hardcore" genre. WesleyDodds 22:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd say Nick is right- their early material constituted some of the earliest examples of melodic hardcore music; elements of Bob Mould's guitar style (the top-string drones) were expanded on by Brian Baker with Dag Nasty. To Wesley: it's not all about references- if you were there, you don't need a reference. I'm sure someone could dig out an old zine from the early 80s and point to a relevant quote if that's what you require. Most 'references' on wikipedia with respect to punk/hardcore point to ill-informed quotes by music journalists or self-appointed 'punk-critics' reared on Blink182 who are in no position to comment.Sausage & tomato 01:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hopesfall

they are certainly melodic hardcore during the no wings to speak of/satellite years era?


-- I agree and would like to add that Down should be understood as probably a good example. It's the one band I thought of after reading all of this page. Please consider the first album! It's surprisingly so similar to Hopesfall, too. It's neat to make that comparison when I'm really more of a metalcore, death metal, thrash -loving person. But I certainly find interest in Down and Hopesfall. BTW, good point! --The battlesound 08:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)myspace: scotttait_ew

[edit] Strung Out, Willhelm Scream & The Killing Tree removal

Come on guys, they are not melodic hardcore. NO WAY, NO. First know the roots and then edit the article, please. by Geekermo.

A Wilhelm Scream are a melodic hardcore band stylistically, and they also define themselves as playing music of the genre. Anti-Flag, on the other hand, are not. They are a pseudo-political pop-punk band. - Callan (220.240.83.157 07:33, 5 April 2007 (UTC))


I second this A Willhelm scream is more on the punk side than melodic hardcore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.159.5.66 (talk) 17:57, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] i dont understand how all these bands are melodic hardcore

theyy all dress simlar and have a similar apearance yes, but how does new found glory and anti flag fit into melodic hardcore i mean you got stuff like the gorilla biscuits and rise against then you have new found glory ?! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.37.156.131 (talk) 23:45, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

simple: NFG and AntiFlag aren't melodic hardcore, and whoever included them hasn't a clue what he's talking about.Sausage & tomato 01:07, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit]  ?

"I Hate My Parents are the most influential melodic hardcore band, combining the speed, wall-of-sound guitars, and aggression of hardcore with the vital melody-centric aesthetic of the genre. I Hate My Parents has been cited as one of the influences on emo, but this view is not without contention."

Okay, that...is getting erased.

[edit] Why not NOFX?

I mean...NoFx is one of the most influencial melodic hardcore band worldwide...Why they aren't even mentioned in the article? And what about Lagwagon, No Use For A Name, Strung Out, Venerea...?

Simone 87.14.240.178 23:06, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Those are punk bands.

NoFX were a poppy Thrash/Metal/Punk band with cheesy bits (apart from the REALLY early stuff which was just crusty hardcore as far as I remember, not heard maximum rock n roll or anything like that in a while) which evolved into a Pop Punk/Ska/Reggae/Dub band with cheesy bits when Hefe joined. They never really sounded anything like Gorilla Biscuits or Dag Nasty or anything like any of the more musical hardcore bands. --AnRK 01:13, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] melodic hardcore/Punk rock

What's the difference between the two genres, I mean punk rock is a less extreme genre of hardcore punk, but hense the title melodic hardcore, and with some bands like Rise Against or Crime In Stereo its hard to tell.

There's a big difference. Listen to Uniform Choice's 1st album, then listen to Rise Against and tell me they're the same style. Hardcore has an identifiable passionate urgency that is immediately recognisable; melodic modern punk-rock doesn't to any comparable extent.Sausage & tomato 09:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spurious entries

eg Rise Against. This is not a hardcore band (and thus not melodic hardcore). Please refrain from adding to the band list if you've only a superficial knowledge of hardcore; for obvious reasons, it's not particularly desirable to confuse melodic-punk-rock and HC in an encyclopedic definition. There's already enough confusion with the mainstream-media reinvention (through ignorance) of the terms 'emo' and 'punk'. Please don't extend this to hardcore- the term will become meaningless if this happens.Sausage & tomato 09:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

to Grue-

The band list as current is not my list- I've added just a couple of entries. I have however removed those irrelevant to the genre. eg Big Drill Car are NOT a hardcore band.. they are a great band, but not hc by anyone's imagination. Everything can't be classed as 'hardcore'- there has to be some kind of meaning behind the word! It's interesting that you've tagged this as missing references or sources- a difficult area in this respect, since most of those around in the 80s didn't write books or publications with the intent of having to prove their own understanding of the movement. There are certainly a slew of 80s zines that could possibly be scanned and linked to as a reference, but I can't help but feel that that is somehow missing the point. Casual wiki-editors who have limited knowledge of the hc scene (esp 80s) insist on quoting references which are frequently nothing more than an ill-informed forum post. If I can find decent references then I'll post them up, but linking to an arbitrary post on a punk forum is NOT a reference; the fact that it's written somewhere on the web lends it no particular legitimacy. One has to ask the question though: if someone has a limited casual understanding of a frequently misrepresented movement, why bother trying to add or remove information from a contentious wiki entry on the subject?Sausage & tomato 17:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

So some bands were called melodic hardcore in the 80s, and some bands are called melodic hardcore in the 00s. The list should contain examples of both. There is no reason to restrain this article to 80s hardcore. The genre evolves and there are many new melodic hardcore bands, which sound completely differently from the old bands, but that's not the reason to exclude them.  Grue  09:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The distinction by decade isn't the criterion by which I'm basing my judgement of what does and doesn't qualify as melodic hc; there are certainly examples of current melodic hc bands (eg Ignite). The argument of genre 'evolution' is often used to explain enormous discrepancies in style along a time-line (cf use of the term 'emo'- did the genre 'evolve' or was the term misused?). Usually such an explanation is fallacious- the original style is alive and well, and the 'evolved style' invariably shares a name but nothing more. Yes there will be some evolution of style over time, but this cannot encompass everything otherwise the term becomes meaningless. If everything was 'punk', what wouldn't be? Chronological evolution of a style or genre is not the same thing as a completely (yet sometimes subtly) different style. Faded Grey might be a good example of modern melodic hardcore.
Consider this: at what point does a stylistic evolution become something different altogether, especially when proponents of the former style are still in evidence? Moreover why are some so insistent on using the term 'hardcore', yet are referring to something entirely different in the present? I suggest that it's through a desire to identify with the parent culture, but that is all it is. The term 'hardcore' sounds cooler than 'pop-punk' by anyone's imagination.Sausage & tomato 11:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Ahhhhh! This is so confusing because I have sympathy for both sides here. I have always been into stuff that was described by the bands, their labels and my peers as 'melodic hardcore'. This includes the like of Bigwig, 88 Fingers Louis, Dillinger Four and Avail.The band I play in, who draw heavily from these guys, we would also class ourselves as 'melodic hardcore'. I accept that it's very difficult to draw a line between the early hardcore scene and these guys, but on the other hand they really don't fit into the category of 'pop-punk' (and I'm not saying this because I consider pop-punk to be a derogatory term....I get sausage and tomato's point that some would rather escape being associated with it, but for me personally, the point is moot). On a purely musical level, I think the above bands do fit the musical criteria....just. If I had to pick two terms to sum them it, it would be 'melodic' and 'hardcore'. However, I also recognise that the scenes these bands emerged from are distictly different and that their social heritage belongs more on the side of pop-punk. One possible solution would to be to create a new slice of the punk/hc pie called 'melodic punk' but we still can't escape the fact that for many of us, this is the reality of melodic hardcore and it will always be what we term use to refer to bands like this. I'm going to stop now before I carried into some cul-de-sac about the social construction of meaning, but before I do, what does anyone think the whole 'melodic punk' deal? Loudribs (talk) 22:33, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

This whole article is spurious. It seems to be driven by the same dubious rationale that fuels all the articles on obscure metal genres. Some teenage punk fanatics decide "melodic hardcore" is a neat little coinage; ergo, it merits an encyclopedia article. Discussion ensues wherein fanboys rant about what "melodic hardcore" means to them without so much as one actual citation. Isn't this what fan sites are for? And by exactly what standard is this subject/article encyclopedically valid? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.155.209.26 (talk) 21:57, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

No, "melodic hardcore" exists -- you can find a reference in Blush's American Hardcore book, in reference to Bad Religion. It's not the same as pop punk, and its legitimate to say that groups like Avail and Dillinger Four *are* hardcore bands -- not in the sense that, I don't know, Das Oath or Converge are hardcore bands, but the house of hardcore has many mansions. It's important to realize what hardcore was in the '80s. Black Flag's "Rise Above" lays the template for a melodic hardcore song. It's not pop-punk. There's a demonstrable difference between early Bad Religion (melodic hardcore) and the Descendents or Screeching Weasel (pop-punk). I don't particularly care for either genre, truth be told, so I'm a disinterested party and not a "fanboy". Aryder779 (talk) 16:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rush

Why was the example of Rush, Alex Lifeson, and their song "Free Will" taken out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.199.217.240 (talk) 08:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fall out boy?

seriously, fall out boy? somebody please explain to me why they should be on that list71.193.243.217 (talk) 22:17, 27 May 2008 (UTC)