User talk:Mavigogun
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[edit] Sarayburnu
The Turkish word burun has several meanings, including 'headland', 'cape', 'point', 'promontory'.[1]. For example, Cape of Good Hope is called Ümit Burnu in Turkish. Literally translated this means 'Hope Cape'; it is ridiculous to state that this means 'Hope Nose'. The English word 'cape' should sometimes be translated into Turkish with pelerin, but it is equally ridiculous to translate 'Cape of Good Hope' as İyi Ümidin Pelerini, as was done on this page, apparently automatically translated from our Little gulper shark article. In translating from one language to another, one should always pick the most appropriate translation of each word, and not just the first one in a dictionary. 'Palace Cape', 'Palace Point', or 'Palace Promontory' are reasonable literal translations of Sarayburnu. The translation 'Palace Nose' is wrong; in an exam points would be taken off for such a bad translation.
If you think that the statement that Sarayburnu is "known in English as the Seraglio Point" is incorrect, then you are mistaken. Whether you approve of this or not, 'Seraglio Point' is a commonly used name for Sarayburnu in English texts.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8] It is true that the origin of the English word 'seraglio' is the Italian word serraglio, just like English 'balcony' comes from Italian balcone, English 'portfolio' comes from Italian portafoglio, and English 'sirocco' comes from Italian scirocco, and so on. These words have become English; they are not Italianized but Anglicized. The 'Seraglio' part in 'Seraglio Point' means Topkapı Palace: the Palace used to be called "the Seraglio" in English; see, for example, the caption of this image. --Lambiam 08:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
There are plenty of Google hits for Sarayburnu meaning "Seraglio Point". There are no sources that support the claim that Sarayburnu means "Palace Nose". Putting that in the article amounts to original research.
You wrote: "Just as we might say 'nose' referring to the front of a plane, it is understood that we are not speaking of a thing with nostrils; likewise, when one refers to the Palace Nose, it is also understood that the meanings are those you ascribe." But because the use of the term 'nose' for a promontory is entirely foreign to native English speakers, the expression 'Palace Nose' does actually evoke a mental image of a literal nose, nostrils and all, and I think that even with the following phrases many English speakers will not see that 'Nose' corresponds to English 'Point' or 'promontory', but will just see some inexplicably quaint name. The fact that you think this "speaks to the flavor of Turkish language" and don't see how ridiculous this sounds, suggests to me that you are not a native English speaker.
In Sarayburnu the component Saray is short for, and means, Topkapı Sarayı, that is, in present-day English, "the Topkapi Palace".
In 'Seraglio Point' the component 'Seraglio' is short for, and means, "the Topkapi Seraglio", that is, in present-day English, "the Topkapi Palace".
In other words, the component Saray in Sarayburnu means the same as the component 'Seraglio' in 'Seraglio Point'. Therefore it is fair to say, in this context, that Saray means "the Seraglio".
'Cape' is not just a connotation of burun. It is one of the possible meanings of that Turkish word. You can't translate English 'foothill' as ayak tepesi, and you can't translate Turkish dağ eteği as 'mountain skirt'. That has nothing to do with these languages employing poetry to name the concepts. In the word 'foothill', 'foot' means etek, and in dağ eteği the word etek means 'foot (of a mountain)'. The meaning of a compound word can in general not be obtained by a literal word-by-word translation of the components without taking account of the context. --Lambiam 19:38, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
