Talk:Matilda of Tuscany

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"Everywhere else§ I find her year of death to be 1115 - I've changed it. -- Robodoc.at 13:45, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merovingian ancestry

Out of curiosity, can we have a source/reference for the claim that she was a descendent of a Merovingian king? Djnjwd 18:19, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Not provable, so removed. Srnec 05:41, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mathilde of Canossa

Please note and check her name was Mathilde not matilda or matilde as everybody can see even on the inscriptions and pictures on this same page. Name was Latin not english or Italian as in 1100 a.D. ther was no italian at all.

She was from Canossa. Canossa is in Emilia-Romagna not in Tuscany. Please check, Canossa is in Reggio Emilia province. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Firedrill (talk • contribs) 23:56, 4 April 2007 (UTC).

She is called Matilda. The original Latin is irrelevant. The article never says Canossa is in Tuscany and Matilda was not born there. Her birthplace is unknown and may have even been Lorraine. Srnec 20:13, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

She may or not be born in Canossa (probably in Mantova), but her Longobard family name is Canossa, from the village of Canossa, her father was Bonifacio from Canossa, her grandfather and so on (since VIII century) were from Canossa, her castle is in Canossa, she was raised and grew up in Canossa, the battle against the emperor henry (she won) was in Canossa, the castle where came the pope and the emperor was Canossa, nowadays in italy her name is Matilde from Canossa, the lands near Canossa nowadays are known by italian decree as Terre Matildiche, her power come from the vassals and rooks on the Appennino Emiliano (not tuscany), her name was Mathilde on all the inscriptions, sculptures, annals biographies and no other name was ever used, She was Longobard mother tongue so was never known as english Matilda or italian Matilde but only as Mathilde her true name given by Lotaringian mother (also in Lotaringian language her name is only possible as Mathilde).

Known Sources are hundreds of books, most relevant is VITA MATHILDIS ( written in 1115 a.D. ) her official biography by DONIZONE PRESBYTERO where she is named Mathilde and she is from Canossa, these are facts with sources. Other notable source is the book by expert Paolo Golinelli (researcher of Medioeval History, university of Verona, prize Accademia dei Lincei, Dipartimento di Discipline Storiche, Artistiche e Geografiche dell’Università degli Studi di Verona),italian title matilde e i canossa nel cuore del medioevo ISBN 887767104-1 .

Themore, her family used as core castle and capital city Canossa (near Reggio Emilia , region of Emilia-Romagna) and sometimes Marengo (near Mantova, in Lombardy), they have never been in tuscany (which city on your unsupported ipothesis would be the core castle and capital town of the Canossa family in tuscany?) Mathilde never lived in Tuscany, her father acquired nobility in Tuscany by politic matters but Mathilde lost the titles in tuscany at a certain point of her life.

Please roll back as soon as possible to Mathilde from Canossa. Firedrill (talk • contribs)

It doesn't matter what she was called. She is called Matilda. End of story. Secondary sources are more important for an encyclopaedia than primary. She ruled Tuscany. "Tuscany" should not be limited to the modern-day province in historical contexts. If you have valuable sourced information to add, you should add it without forcing it to be reverted because you did not cite sources and because you don't follow Wikipedia guidelines. Historical figures are referred to by their modern names in most contexts. Srnec 18:52, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes it's Ok- keep it matilda and keep tuscany; you have the truth and sources (I have cited ) are wrong.
You are right, these sources worth nothing: VITA MATHILDIS ( written in 1115 a.D. ) official biography by DONIZONE PRESBYTERO ,
Paolo Golinelli (researcher of Medioeval History, university of Verona, prize Accademia dei Lincei, Dipartimento di Discipline Storiche, Artistiche e Geografiche dell’Università degli Studi di Verona),italian title matilde e i canossa nel cuore del medioevo ISBN 887767104-1, both are wrong. End of Story.
If you want to learn something, read http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matilde_di_Canossa
Firedrill (talk • contribs)

What about the sources I have that call her Matilda of Tuscany? The facts are: her name in modern English is Matilda and we use modern English for medieval persons (see all her contemporaries: Emperor Henry III, Pope Gregory VII, etc.) and she was the marchioness of Tuscany (that's why she's called "of Tuscany", it has nothing to do with her birthplace). Secondary sources are more important because primary sources require interpretation, which is original research. I would love to add more info from Domnizo in the future and I probably will. Srnec 01:12, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I live in italy in Mathildic lands, (Terre Mathildiche by italian decree) we live mathildic legend and histories, yours are simply wrong phrases wrong concepts, wrong geography, wrong knowledge, and nothing more, you do not know what you ar talking of, but if you are so powerful, keep tuscany and everything you want with my compliments. If you ever want to learn something from qualified personnel, high university related and high research related people, read from the high quality qualified italian article of Mathilde di Canossa and shy.

Your bad English does not help your case. But I went to this site and it showed what appeared to be an authentic contemporary signum bearing the name "Matilda" (in the lower left corner). Can you explain this? Also, a Google search for "Terre Mathildiche" turns up nothing, while a search for "Terre Matildiche" gives many hits. Who has the right spelling? You do not seem to comprehend my arguments, much less answer them. She ruled Tuscany and Emilia, so there is no problem. As you said, you live legends: I read histories. Srnec 23:47, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Her name is Mathilde, and she is from Canossa, end.

you can do read by yourself with your eyes in Vatican city on her true and only monumental sepulture. The picture (I made) in the article show this fact .
Or you can read her original authentic contemporary biography Vita Mathildis (made by Donizone in 1100's). She appears only as Mathilde of Canossa. No questions on this.

she had titles in all northern Italy (and in Lorraine);
she was Countess of: Canossa, Reggio, Modena, Mantova, Brescia e Ferrara (no one in Tuscany);
she was also Duchess of Spoleto (not Tuscany)
she also surely acquired Marquisee of Tuscany by political matters, but had lost this title at a certain point of her life. This is a fact.

She never lived in Tuscany. This is a fact.
She lived and was born in Canossa. No questions, this is a fact.
Her castle was in Canossa
Her power was from Canossa army
Her court was at Canossa

She ruled Tuscany for a short period, also she ruled all life Canossa, Emilia, Romagna, Lombardia and all Italia at a certain point. Her father, and all before him, were ruling Canossa (not Tuscany), all the family is named: Canossiani (not Tuscanian); the lineage is : Canossa Counts

This is history and facts and references and evidences. You can close your eyes and do what you want, look at website and ignore books, experts, researchers, museums, with my compliments...--- F I R E D R I L L - 22:14, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

This is an English-language wiki. She's called Matilda in English. There are hundreds if not thousands of other examples in this wiki where historical names have been Anglicized. For one example, in the article itself, it's Henry IV, not Heinrich IV or Enrico IV.

And everything else aside, please don't change her name in the titles to references, e.g., the book by Spike and the paper by Eads. Loren Rosen 02:30, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Matilda actually signed her own documents 'Matilda Dei gratia si quid est' (as one can see by reading her own documents, in Latin, in the edition of her charters by Werner and Elke Goez for the Monumenta Germaniae Historica series). The Latin and English forms of her name are thus the same (in the nominative case, at least). So it is perfectly acceptable to call her 'Matilda'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.65.196.54 (talk) 22:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)