Talk:Matchless

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[edit] Cleanup

This needs cleanup, that which is AMC generic belongs in the AMC and it needs to be made more clear what applies to the Matchless marque. The non-encyclopedic tone needs work too. GraemeLeggett 16:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree but presume you mean Associated Motorcycles. unfortunately I was doing a wikify and reorganise but ended up in an edit conflict that GraemeLeggett beat me to. This page should have Matchless only related information with an appropriate link to the newer company. ww2censor 17:43, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Too much Norton and AJS? I thought AMC was Matchless grown large, an umbrella company for the Colliers? (So took it up to the demise of the last AMC component that had been used in Matchless motorcycles, the AMC gearbox.) The badge engineering makes for a confusing history. I rode a rigid 1949 G80 in 1966, when 14yrs old...and felt like the previous information wasn't enough. Any comments or re-organisation will help future efforts, and maybe even give me a better feel for that "encyclopedic tone" ...though I'm not a true scholar. Probably even out of line with an unscholarly reply. Thank you.Seasalt 08:19, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Paragraph describing the last years needs a thorough edit. "Some models were "parts bin specials" put together at the request of the American dealers." This phrase nurses a prejudice against AMC. Any automotive maker builds on what they have in stock - making special parts is very costly to the maker and the buying public. Nevertheless, the G15 line, the P11 line and the G85CS are examples of models where the factory undertook comprehensive development efforts, particularly so for the G85CS which was an all-new bike with a radical frame and a highly-tuned engine. With the G15 line, AMC built on the merits of the G12 but there were numerous changes to frame, forks, swinging arm, primary chaincase, transmission, cycle parts and lubrication system. The P11 was the last line of bikes with bonds to AMC. It used a modified G85CS frame but there were stronger forks, completely new cycle parts (making some was rather costly), altered lubrication and modified primary chaincases, to mention a few.

Another notable development project was the G15/45 or G15 Mk1, made in model years 1962 and 1963. Built on the G12, it featured a redesigned twin engine with new pistons, cylinders and heads, revised lubrication, and a host of new cycle parts. It was a very handsome and fast bike, particularly the 1963 CSR version. Unfortunately, with the introduction of the Atlas engine manufacture at Plumstead, it was axed as a cost-cutting exercise.

"The Americans were desert racing, so Berliners sent AMC an example custom bike using a Norton 750 motor in a G85CS frame, and asked them to build them some. " True, but this happened 1967. Prior to that, during 1963 the Berliners asked AMC to supply enduro bikes able to compete against the 650 Triumphs and 750 Harleys in desert racing, as the 650 twins proved to be inferior. The G15/45 never made it to the racing track, AFAIK.

"The 748 cc Matchless G15 was to become the last model still being sold under the Matchless name." This may not be so. It is believed that production of the G15 series was halted late in 1968 (model year '69) with unsold samples on offer through 1969. The P11 series carried on until the spring of 1969. The P11 was offered either as Norton or Matchless, but by heritage it is a Matchless bike.

"(It was also sold as the AJS Model 33 and Norton P11.)" This is definately wrong. The G15 series was offered as 3 brands: Matchless G15 comprising G15Mk2, G15CS and G15CSR; AJS Model 33 comprising M33Mk2, M33CS and M33CSR; and last not least Norton N15CS (no Norton-branded roadster made as it would compete against the Atlas). The G15 series was produced from 1963 to 1969. They were initially for export only, but by 1965 these models were available in UK and Europe too.

The P11 series is an entirely different model line which comprised the following 4 models: P11 (1967), P11A (1968) and P11A Ranger (1968/69) and the P11 Ranger 750 (1969).

"A Mk2 version was sold in Britain from 1964." Incorrect - G15Mk2 was the roadster model, descendant of the N15CS and G15CS 1964 models. AFAIK, the roadster model went on sale late in model year 1964 (probably spring of '64) and was offered on the UK market for model year 1965.

"The Matchless G85CS used a 12:1 compression 500 cc with an improved bottom end, and a Norton gear-driven oil pump replacing the old reciprocating design that dated back to the 1920s. [6]"

Partly incorrect - the revised bottom end was introduced for 1964 and is shared by 350/500 roadsters and the 500CS (G80CS and M18CS), the engine of which was later adapted to the G85CS. The new lubrication system helped lubricating the big end and piston as well as the top end on the high-performance singles. The G85CS was further tuned for 1966, and received a new piston providing a CR of 12.5:1. An Amal GP carburettor was standard fitting, making the bike hard to start. Maximum power rose to 41@6500 rpm. It has been reported that performance of factory engines would be in excess of 50 hp, presumably achieved by running on methanol.

(The G85CS) "was built mainly for the American off-road market." Hardly so. The G85CS was a bike in european motocross trim, intended to compete on european and british racetracks -- hardly a bike you would expect to be successful in US desert racing. Furthermore, it was an advanced bike which demanded both driving and mechanical skills, definately not the average riders mount. Last not least - because of its design features, it was a very expensive bike. It proved not to be popular in Europe or in the US (probably due to its price tag and late arrival) and it was eventually outperformed by lighter mx two-strokes. Still, it's an impressive bike.

¨¨¨¨mdt-son

[edit] Motorcycle Task Force

To see if there is enough support for a Project Motorcycles, a page has been set up for those interested to discuss the idea at User:Seasalt/Project Motorcycles, coupled with Wikipedia:WikiProject/List of proposed projects#WikiProject Motorcycles for registration of interest.Seasalt 14:24, 13 October 2006 (UTC)