Talk:Master of Fine Arts
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Added a link to the JHU Writing Seminars program, as it is one of the foremost in the nation.
Added a link for the CCA MFA Standards guidelines MFA 02:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Plastic Arts
Plastic Arts strikes me as an odd term, but I think it may be a Britishism (I did a quick search on MFA Plastic Arts, and it mainly seems to be former British colonies that grant that degree). In the U.S. we don't really refer to plastic arts (I speak as both an artist and an art professor), we simply call it sculpture.
Even though there is such a thing as an MFA in Plastic Arts, I'm not sure it makes sense to specify it separately from Visual Arts. Plastic Arts is really a sub-category of Visual Arts (at least I believe that's the case, as an American art professor I'm mainly familiar with how we categorize things in the U.S.) and if the article specifically mentions "Plastic Arts," I don't see why it doesn't break out and mention all the visual art media: photography, ceramics, printmaking, painting, new media, film, etc.
If someone feels strongly that Plastic Arts needs to be listed, they should either list all the Visual Arts mediums or, I think, they should explain (here on the discussion page) why Plastic Arts is a medium within Visual Art, but is something that stands on it's own.
Incidentally, if you do disagree with me on this, consider Tapei University (which offers an MFA in Plastic Arts). As you can see here:
the School of Fine Arts does offer a MFA in both Fine Arts and Plastic Arts, but their sibling relationship is akin to how the School of Theater Arts offers MFAs in Theater Studies, Theater Design, and Theater Performance. The article appropriately sums that up as an MFA in Theater Arts, in the same way I think it's right for Plastic Arts to be considered covered by Visual Arts. Simenzo (talk) 15:33, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Geographical scope
I am pretty sure this stuff only applies to the US, and it should say so, although I'm not expert enough to know – in Australia, however, where I live, it seems to be standard practice for art practitioners to do PhDs with some practical component as their highest degree. mgekelly 20:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
- I think the standard is still a terminal MFA in most areas I'm aware of, but there are PhDs in visual arts (studio) in Canada at UQAM in Montreal and the University of Western Ontario in London, Ontario, and a PhD available in studio, media arts and filmmaking at York University and Ryerson University (jointly) in Toronto.Freshacconci 18:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] MFA and PhD
As an editor has indicated in the edit summary, an MFA is not the equivalent to a PhD. An MFA is a terminal degree, in that you do not require a further degree to teach university in your area of expertise, but the MFA is equal only to other masters degrees. Freshacconci 00:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, it's a master's degree and a terminal degree. It's true! JJL 14:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
At the risk of original research, it might be worth pointing out that MFA were originally intended as a three year degree, but most MFA programs are now two years long. This watering down of the degree's rigor supports the idea that "MFAs are the new MA".Simenzo (talk) 17:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Lists
This is becoming a set of lists, which WP is WP:NOT. I think we should remove all the lists of programs. JJL 14:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
- I agree. This isn't a directory for finding an MFA program. Freshacconci 15:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Developing doctorate degrees
"At present there are very few doctoral degree programs in these fields, but the DFA, or Doctor of Fine Arts, often awarded as an honorary degree, is being introduced as an earned degree at some schools (for instance, the the Yale School of Drama, for dramaturgy and dramatic criticism). Other universities are developing PhD programs in fields such as Creative Writing, Visual Arts and Theater."
If it is the case that the MFA used to be the highest degree you could get in these fields, but now schools are starting to establish earned DFA and Phd programs in these fields then those that will act as thesis advisors, teach Phd/DFA courses, etc will have a degree that is actually lower then the degree their students will eventually earn ? How is that apperent paradox handled ? This same thing actually applies to new fields, like for instance, what was the academic background of the thesis advisor for the thesis for the first Phd in Computer Science ? Obvously that person couldn't have had a Phd in Computer Science, by definition. It is just something that has bugged me for a long time Kristian Joensen 23:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
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- It's only a paradox if one assumes that a higher academic degree automatically equates to greater competence (both artistically and pedagogically). There are people with PhDs who are terrible professors and there are wonderful professors who only possess a bachelor's degree. A terminal degree is usually a requirement for professorship, but exceptions are made for people who have gained renown in their fields. When I was an undergraduate one of my professors only had a BA (he's now a full professor and the head of his department), and one of my current colleagues who is an associate professor has only a BFA. Simenzo (talk) 17:08, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Many people with MFAs still hope that others will see it as a terminal degree, but more and more schools in the US now see it as another master's degree one can earn on the way to a PhD, and they tend to hire PhDs at their universities. The exceptions include authors, artists, and dramatists who have achieved significant renown beyond the academy. These figures still tend to get tenure-track jobs. Also, there are differences between hiring practices at small liberal arts colleges and big research universities. Extreme competition for tenured jobs has driven the development of doctoral programs of study in creative fields. Kristian, I'm afraid I've not answered your question, but suffice it to say that non-academic achievement has become less and less impressive as more and more authors, artists, and dramatists enter the fray. For example, it is not that unusual to find a person who has published two novels, yet has no doctoral degree, finding it difficult to obtain a secure, full-time job teaching in an English Department. Such is the academic arms race.Josh a brewer (talk) 17:10, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Differentiation Between Visual Arts and Writing
MFA programs in visual arts are very different than programs in writing. I propose separate articles for each, linked-to from this article, which would provide an overview of the degree independent of subject. -Cyberscribe 15:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
- Any further thoughts on differentiating the subject matter in separate articles? -Cyberscribe 18:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- This is not a bad idea. Unfortunately, there is currently only one notable source cited in this article, so the new articles would need to involve a good bit more research. In principle, though, I agree that these degrees are different enough that they could be distinguished on different pages. However, some people might simply prefer different sections (one each for visual arts, creative writing, and drama) within the current entry. Thoughts? I guess they're giving out MFAs in film now, too, eh?Josh a brewer (talk) 17:28, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Also, I'm pretty sure that this claim, which can be found in the entry as it now exists, is not true for "most" MFA programs in creative writing: "most MFA degree programs require 60-64 semester credits."Josh a brewer (talk) 18:44, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
