User talk:Marvin Cee

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] Welcome!

Hello, Marvin Cee! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking Image:Signature icon.png or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Dreamy \*/!$! 20:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Getting started
Getting help
Policies and guidelines
The community
Writing articles
Miscellaneous

Congratulations! Your test worked!

Thank you for experimenting with Wikipedia by creating the page David kubinec. Your test worked, and the page that you created has been or soon will be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. — Timotab Timothy (not Tim dagnabbit!) 22:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Couple of points

Hi, and thanks for your contributions. Wikipedia does not use ALL CAPS for emphasis, and links to Myspace and other forums are not useful to us. Best wishes, --John 23:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. As I already said, a Myspace link does not really add value to the article. See WP:EL for our policy on external links. --John 01:19, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] helpme

{{helpme}} John, I can't figure out how to add REFERENCES...? I am trying to do the best I can with limited ability. I would also love to display my LUCIFER RISING MySpace site as it contains a wealth of information. I understand you don't allow MySpace as an external link, but there are many instances where they are allowed. I am also having trouble understanding how to do much more than editing, such as catagories and the proper way to set up a topic and your tutorials have my head spinning, therefore I am thankful for your edits and advice.Marvin Cee 22:35, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi Marvin Cee, MySpace is not considered a Reliable source. References should preferably be from third party sources, eg. magazines, newspapers and suchlike. The easiest way to learn how to add stuff using wiki code is to open a simple page for editing and see how things are. For example, if you open Kris Ottman Neville for editing, you'll see how categories are done, how wikilinks are added, about infoboxes, bolding and italicizing text, etc. Just open the article in normal mode and in editing mode in separate windows and compare; it's easy to tell what code does what. If this is not helpful, please ask for help again using the helpme template. - TwoOars 22:47, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notability of Christopher Dietler

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Christopher Dietler, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Christopher Dietler seems to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Christopher Dietler, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. CSDWarnBot 20:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Please reconsider deleting this page on Christopher Dietler as I've worked very hard to elevate his importance as he relates to both Jimmy Page and Kenneth Anger's film Lucifer Rising. I have tried to adhere to your policy and would appreciate some help in re-constructing the page to better suit...please advise or assist me, Respectfully, Marvin CeeMarvin Cee 22:28, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

  • In order to avoid deletion, pages describing people should make sure they follow WP:BIO. That guideline defines what makes a person notable (ie, worthy of writing an article about). (Since wikipedia is an encyclopedia, we have rules for this sort of thing). Also, note that I removed the hang-on tag from this page. (Technically, it was flagging your talk page for deletion, which I think you want to avoid :) Best, --Bfigura (talk) 22:45, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
  • PS: Don't get discouraged if the page does get deleted. Pages that don't strongly assert notability fall pretty fast, so if you're interested in slowly building the page up, you could first write a draft in your user-space, where it won't get deleted. Then, once you're done, you can ask other uses for feedback, or just use it to create the article. For ex: clicking here: User_talk:Marvin_Cee/Draft, would take you to such a page. Best, --Bfigura (talk) 22:48, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] helpme 2

{{helpme}} Dear Bfigura, I just didn't realize the magnitude of creating a page on Wikipedia. At first it seems so very simple, cut paste, edit and the page appears. I feel my article is extremely credible, but don't know as though I have the desire to face the constant scrutiny of other users. For me, this was meant to be an enjoyable experience and I have a wealth of information on Christopher Dietler and his release of the Kenneth Anger - Jimmy Page - Lucifer Rising Soundtrack. Dietler was even able to have the album release featured on MTV and I have the video clip to prove it on the following website: www.myspace.com/fraterzardoz. I guess what I am asking is that instead of beating myself to death trying to stay afloat here in a league of serious 'encyclopedians' is that possible I could get some assistance from a person with credibility (like you) to save my work? With as much said, I am an honest bloke trying to offer up some historical information and I feel that I'm possibly the only person one the face of the earth that can offer such info on Dietler...Respectfully, Marvin CeeMarvin Cee

(answering, although not addressed to me) Marvin Cee, don't get discouraged so soon! :) It is a bit difficult to get all things right in the beginning; I had trouble in the beginning too. And not everyone is a "serious encyclopedian". People do it for fun too. :) If you want someone to be there to help you constantly, you can get adopted by a more experienced wikipedian. And someone would try to help you when you use the helpme template. I am not familiar with the subject matter, so I do not want to do it. But if you want help from Bfigura, you should ask them on their talk page (User talk:Bfigura) as they are unlikely to be checking on your talk page often. - TwoOars 23:06, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Thankfully I had Marvin's page flagged, so here I am. Feel free to ask me anything on my talk page, I'd more than happy to help. Best, --Bfigura (talk) 23:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
This user has been adopted by Blacksmith.


[edit] User page and User talk page

hi again Marvin Cee, I moved a comment posted by you at User:Precious Roy to User talk:Precious Roy. Messages are posted on the talk pages. Also when you are asking a specific user for help on their talk page, there is no need to post a helpme template. A helpme template is like a call out into the wild for help. :) - TwoOars 22:59, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Well TwoOars, I guess I am really swimming, just don't understand all this, maybe I'm in over my head, just want some good hearted soul to see the importance and pass me an oar...Maybe you can assist me, MCeeMarvin Cee 23:06, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Will see if I can help you. Do something; instead of posting your article in the main space, post it here in your user space, at this link User:Marvin Cee/Sandbox. I'll be back in a few hours andcheck what's wrong with the article and try to improve it; ok? - TwoOars 23:12, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the help TwoOars, this has proven to be a real patience testor, fun, but testing. I am fairly persistent and hopefully I can find somebody to adop me for I am having a difficult time even trying to figure out who to answer and where to place my comments. Not exactly email...hopefully, I will get there and in the meantime - Keep smiling - Marvin Cee

Well TwoOars, looks like I'm the laughing stock and headed for the trash bin with my page on Dietler. I placed it in my sandbox, but it appears that Mr. Dietler just doesn't stand a chance with 'anglers' like Precious Roy and Timotab in this large pond full of big fish. Although he does serve the history of Lucifer Rising, he doesn't seem to tip the scale of importance. Even though, if it hadn't been for the courageous Dietler, the Jimmy Page soundtrack would still not have seen the light of day and to me and others in the Led Zep community, that's pretty big stuff! As far as viable reference material goes, I'd say The Sacramento Bee, local college radio station interviews, Billboard Magazine, MTV news, NME and a host of well respected Led Zeppelin authors are fairly credible. Thank you for taking time to answer my cries in the dark, do what you'd like in my sandbox, assist me if you will, reason with PRoy and Timo, but whatever you do, be nice, I've had a rough day and the only bait I have to use are worms. Gone fishing, Marvin Cee 23:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Help Request

Hi Marvin, I'm going to copy your request below, just so this is all in one place. One sec... --Bfigura (talk) 23:51, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Dear Bfigura, Thanks for riding to my rescue! Very thankful indeed as I have been pulling my hair out trying to figure out whats - what. I started a page on a fella called Christopher Dietler and if you read my effort along with my injections of him on the Kenneth Anger page, you might see why I feel him to be a significant figure in the history of the film titled Lucifer Rising. All I really wanted to do was update the Lucifer Rising page, correct release date, better photo and a bit more info. I decided then to update Anger's page to elaborate a bit more on his troubles with not only Jimmy Page, but his court actions taken against Dietler. I befriended Dietler about this time and assisted him, saving all sorts of memorabelia as well as working closely with him while he was preparing his record album. It really is a neat bit of history and I am really the only person who can tell the story accurately. I prepared a MySpace site with a cute little story and added some neat photos and such. I am also the official archivist for the rock band called THE BABYS and have a few sites dedicated to them as well. My wife thinks I'm nuts, but it's my passion and I am very excited about elevating Mr. Dietler and helping correct history as we know it. I would be grateful if you could take a peek at my Christopher Dietler page and get it firing on all cylinders, external links, Sacramento Bee article, etc. Possibly even do a few tweaks to the Kenneth Anger site by adding the References and External links as well. I can back up all my work with documents and am willing to share my knowledge and credits with you as my mentor. THE BABYS story features many notables, managers, etc that need historical significance as well and if you are remotely interested in Rock and Roll history, perhaps this could a great place to start writing history! Looking Forward - Marvin Cee 23:36, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
As you may have noticed, I took down the deletion notice, and placed an under construction tag on the Christopher_Dietler page to buy you some time to edit. Now which page was it you wanted me to take a look at, that one, or was there another one that had the ref's and sources, etc? (Basically any biography page needs to be very well sourced, as WP:BIO says). --Bfigura (talk) 23:54, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello Bfigura, sorry to leave you unanswered for so long, got tied up with Grand parenting chores and finally have some time to take stock on these matters. I was hoping to salvage my attempt to feature Christopher Dietler as a noteworthy page on Wikipedia. I was also hoping to have 'The Sacramento Bee' link available as EXTERNAL on both Jimmy Page and Kenneth Angers page as well as the Lucifer Rising film/album page so that the reader could go directly to the page and read the article. The Sac Bee website has the article featured, but you have to pay to read, whereas there is a website called “LAShTAL” that features the entire article: http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/module-subjects-viewpage-pageid-127.phtml

If you read below, Precious Roy has a difference of opinion and feels that Deitler is not of enough significance to warrant his own page. Please note that if Dietler had not purchased this historic film from Kenneth Anger and released the Jimmy Page soundtrack, it would still not be released, there would be no write-up in Billboard Magazine nor would it have been featured on MTV news every hour on the hour for two straight days. I’d say that’s fairly noteworthy in itself. I knew Dietler, he was a legitimate guy, he obtained US copyrights, the album was NOT released as a bootleg, it was an official release and his business was sound. Dielter also founded a local chapter of the O.T.O. and that organization still thrives as well. Kenneth Anger agreed to sell Dietler the film and at the time, didn't care what Chris did with the soundtrack. Dietler was shocked when Anger filed suit as was Jimmy Page when Anger blasted him in the press back in 1977. In the end Dietler is of notable significance, even if it be his notorious connection with Jimmy Page and Kenneth Anger. The film Lucifer Rising is very important and so is the entire history including the connection with Manson follower Bobby Beausoleil, etc...he too has a Wikipedia page. In my opinion, history is history, no matter how insignificant it might seem to others. Okay, so it doesn't meet all the criteria, I say mash it all up and splice it together and Dietler becomes a very noteworthy person. I tend to get long winded and quite passionate about it as you can see. If you don’t feel this is something you want to involve yourself, I understand and the same goes for Precious Roy. I simply saw the need to rectify some of the erroneous information about the Lucifer Rising album release and if I hadn’t done so, history would be very wrong in this very small and somewhat minimal case. Please offer your thoughts and possibly we can all (3) get together and make this work without further paragraphs from me. After all, it is people like you that keep this place a real source for correct information and if that wasn’t the case, I wouldn’t be spending my time pleading my case (or correcting erroneous information for the sake of the Zeppelin historicans!) – My Respects, Marvin Cee 21:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear Bfigura, Looking over the Lucifer Rising page, I am content with the way things appear and if you could assist me with 'copy edit' and 'reference source' I could go to sleep tonight quite content. I cannot offer court documents, although they do exist somewhere in the State of California court system. There is enough reference material with The Sacramento Bee, Billboard Magazine, MTV, New Musical Express and various Led Zeppelin biographers to do the trick. I respect everything you and the other administrators are doing to keep this a valid source and I thank you for being so kind. Deep breath, Marvin Cee 22:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Christopher Dietler

Dear Precious Roy, I would greatly appreciate your assistance rather than deleting my page on Christopher Dietler. I believe him to be extremely important as he relates to the history of Jimmy Page, Kenneth Anger and the film Lucifer Rising. As you can tell, I am a novice on Wikipedia, but possess a wealth of information on Dietler's project, his lawsuit with Anger and his effort to release the audio soundtrack that is now linked with Led Zeppelin history. I believe I am the only person who can offer such in depth information and really would like it if you'd assist me in making it right. You can visit my website: www.myspace.com/fraterzardoz to read my story. I am also the official archivist for the rock band called THE BABYS and have spent nearly 10 years preparing a biography of the founding member Michael Corby. You can see my work to verify this as well: www.thebabysarchives.com and www.myspace.com/thebabysofficial. Please take this time for me and thank you for keeping my head above the waves...Respectfully, Marvin CeeMarvin Cee

Apparently we have a difference of opnion. I can see mentioning Dietler in the Lucifer Rising soundtrack article, and possibly even the Kenneth Anger, Jimmy Page, and Lucifer Rising film articles. I don't however, see how he meets Wikipedia's criteria (found here: WP:BIO) for his own article. It would seem that the only thing he is notable for is buying a film from Anger and releasing a bootleg album of the film's soundtrack. Not to mention the fact that there is a lack of reliable sources for the information in the article. Unfortunately, it appears that much of the article is original research, which is verboten on Wikipedia. While the story is interesting, it is considerably less than encyclopedic. I would strongly recommend you read all the pages I have linked to in this post—the information will serve you in future edits here. Cheers! Precious Roy 01:18, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello Precious Roy, please read my blurb in the above reply to Bfigura. I have read your references and can see that Christopher Dietler doesn't fit every letter of the law, however, I believe if you do a bit of research on your own on my perspectives on this history you may have a change of heart. Let's just say that I certainly would not be putting up a page on myself because I helped Dietler release his ablum, but if I don't tell this history, it is doubtful that anybody else will. I just so happened to be in this space of time and have a certain desire to log it in the annals before we move along from this place. I appreciate your efforts, agree with your perspectives and am asking that you take stock in this one before soliciting to remove his efforts or mine for that matter. Would you like me to offer you some links for consideration? Respectfully, Marvin Cee 21:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Marvin, your comment above, if I don't tell this history, it is doubtful that anybody else will is very telling, and is probably a good guide to the topic's non-notability. — Timotab Timothy (not Tim dagnabbit!) 22:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello Timotab, I can see your point if you just want to dissect and focus on one statement, however The Sacramento Bee, Billboard Magazine, MTV, New Musical Express and various other notable Led Zeppelin biographers might disagree with you. They seemed to think it was noteworthy at the time and not because of Christopher Dietler. This isn't a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact and the next biographer who attempts to target a bio on Led Zeppelin, Jimmy Page, Kenneth Anger or the making of Lucifer Rising might appreciate the fact somebody is standing up to be counted. If this is a matter of me not being entirely versed in Wikipedia-ing, so be it. I have asked for a more respected administrator to assist me rather than me putting forth efforts only to have them plucked for the sake of opinion. Dietler's importance becomes his dance with destiny in as much as if you hadn't gone to Disneyland you might not have met your wife or had three handsome children, but that doesn't mean Walt Disney should be credited with all the happiness in life. In closing, it takes people like Dietler to assist in making history and there are enough published reports to make him historically valid in the history of Lucifer Rising and the Led Zeppelin/Kenneth Anger community...doesn't it? I'll hang on for little longer before going to the sharks. One small step - Marvin Cee 22:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi again Marvin, you mention The Sacramento Bee, local college radio station interviews, Billboard Magazine, MTV news, NME and a host of well respected Led Zeppelin authors. Can you provide online links / offline details of those interviews or biographies? (ie, provide which biographies mention him and this story, with page numbers etc, which magazines published his interviews, with date of publishing, etc. The important thing is that your claims should be verifiable by other editors. If Christopher Dietler was prominently mentioned by all those like you claim, the article can possibly survive. (will be back in a few hours when I am free again). - TwoOars (Rev) 10:16, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Er, apparently you did mention those dates of interviews etc. Problem is this article doesn't make any sense to me because I just know Led Zeppelin as a music band; that's all. (which might be blasphemy to some! :P ) I'll have to read up on the material already present on wiki for some background and context. Will get back to you in about 7 to 8 hours. - TwoOars (Rev) 10:30, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Marvin, I have gone through the article, the Kenneth Anger page and the Sacramento Bee reference, and I am sorry to say that Christopher Dietler doesn't appear to be notable enough to warrant an article. The best that would be possible would be to add a note about this story at Kenneth Anger and / or Jimmy Page with this reference. But do not be too disappointed about this. Maybe Christopher Dietler will get into more pickle than this and will become more notable; we can have an article on him then! :-D Meanwhile there are a number of other articles on wikipedia that need attention and you may be able to help. There is a WikiProject on Music that could use your services and knowledge. Cheers. - TwoOars (Rev) 19:54, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello TwoOars, Great to hear from you! I just spend most of the late afternoon preparing more of my case with Dietler when I came to view your comments on my talk page. I believe you are correct, you place things in the proper context and even make me laugh. Dietler was/is a bit notorious and for all we know he's in plenty of trouble too! He is mentioned in the Lucifer Rising and Kenneth Anger page, but neither of them have the Sacramento Bee reference as a reference or external link, possibly you could assist me by setting this up properly? I am researching Billboard Magazine and should have possible reference material there as well, but still no mention of Dietler. You might be so kind as to take these in to consideration [1] and [2], they both have info that could be referenced on Kenneth Anger, Jimmy Page and Lucifer Rising, however I can't figure out how to get them into the 'reference' area and they've been removed from the 'external links' for some reason...? Please take a quick peek at all the valid reference material from my personal archives as featured on MySpace [3]. In the end, I had to take a hard look at myself over the past few days and finally decided to stop sniveling, then got back to business. While understanding I have what I feel is a valid piece of history, my mechanics are lacking in the Wikipedia world. With a little help, a few reference tags, external links, we could move on to bigger and better things. I thank you all and look forward to either your help or encouragement, just gimme a chance to learn and create. As an ‘Adoptee’ You may even be proud of me someday…Respectfully, 66.237.45.171 01:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC) [User:Marvin Cee|Marvin Cee]]

[edit] References

Hi, I have added the references you have given to Kenneth Anger as seenhere. As you can see from that diff, you can add inline citations by using the <ref> </ref> tag. Also, I have redirected Christopher Dietler to Lucifer Rising (film) as can be seen here. - TwoOars (Rev) 18:50, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello TwoOars, I finally found the courage to check out the Lucifer Rising details and was completely knocked out by your kindness and proficiency...WOW...I really am thrilled and will now get back to work offering a tweak-or-two while staying within my comfort zone. Since I started this Wikipedia page, I've spoken to many friends about my experiences and they all agree that the intensity of the microscope is necessary and I really appreciate the lessons learned. I have to be honest in saying that I am sincerely humbled and equally thankful. I was up the creek and you offered me a paddle. Respectful friend. Marvin Cee 00:16, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adoption

I see you wish to be adopted, I am an experienced editor with 1700 edits and have been at Wikipedia for over 6 months, if you wish to be adopted replace the 'I want to be adopted' box with {{adoptee|Blacksmith}} and drop a line at my talk page.Blacksmith talk 05:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greetings from your new adopter

Just like to say hi, if you need to contact me to ask for help feel free. I am willing to help. Go to my talkpage or if you need help quick I am on IRC irc.freenode.org #wikipedia as Whitesmith.Blacksmith talk 06:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lucifer Rising Picture

Hey, I noticed that you seem to have replaced the Lucifer Rising picture I put on (Image:LuciferRising JimmyPage.jpg) with exactly the same picture (Image:BHR66 Cover.jpg). I found out when I got a notice saying that image I put on had been orphaned. Just can't seem to understand why you did this. Please message back sometime. EndlessWires, 14 September, 12:18 UTC.

You posted your reply on EndlessWires' user page, which is for his own use; I move your reply to his/her talk page, which is where it should have gone. (You hadn't logged in, by the way.) --Orange Mike 20:05, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lucifer Rising Picture Again

Hey there again, thanks for your message Marvin, I just wanted to you to know that I was not offended by this whole thing. Only merely, confused, and I do admit the one picture you put on is of better quality than the one I managed to find. I just really wanted to the know the whole reason behind the picture replace thing, so thanks for letting me know dude. EndlessWires, —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 10:56, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Note again that the image you posted has been deleted becasue of where you had obtained it while Marvins was allowed.Blacksmith talk 23:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed fair use rationale for Image:BHR66 Cover.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:BHR66 Cover.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)