Talk:Marty Glickman
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[edit] Including mention that Glickman was Jewish
I have reverted mention of Glickman being Jewish for the following reasons.
1. Wikipedia Manual of Style. The Wikipedia Manual of Style is our guide. It states, in Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies), as follows: "The opening paragraph should give .... Nationality (In the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable. Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability.)"
2. Nationality. The first question, then, is whether the Jews are a nation. If so, information as to the fact that a subject of a bio is Jewish belongs in the opening paragraph.
The Wikipedia entry for "Jew" indicates, inter alia, that Jews are "members of the Jewish people (also known as the Jewish nation ...)."
The Wiki definition of "nationality" states, inter alia: "Generally, nationality is established at birth by a child's place of birth (jus soli) and/or bloodline (jus sanguinis)."
Thus, one can maintain that in the (abnormal) case of Jews (distinguished from the "normal case," referred to in the MOS), who consist of a nation that has largely been dispersed from its homeland, inclusion of the fact that a person is Jewish in the bio's opening paragraph is called for by Wiki MOS policy.
Other religions are in the "normal case" distinct from the nation. In other words, there was not a Protestant, or Buddhist, or Christian, or Hindu, or Aethiest nation per se. They are not a "people." They are not a "nation." Jews, peculiarly, are not just a religion. They are also a nation. Dispersed (largely) for a couple of thousand years.
3. Ethnicity. If one were, however, to not consider the Jews a nation, despite the above Wiki definition, the question as to whether one should include the fact that a person is a Jew in the opening paragraph of the person's bio could be answered by the the MOS reference to ethnicity.
"Ethnicity", under the Wikipedia definition, includes among its subsets people who have a shared nationality (not the focus of the above exception, obviously), and those who share a religion. But, with Jews, much more than a shared religion is at issue, as discussed above, as the Jews also share a homeland and are a nation.
Thus, one would seem to find oneself pushed back to consider Jews in the "nationality" category, which calls for inclusion of a person's Jewishness in the openining paragraph of the bio.
4. Notability Exception. Even with ethnicity, Wiki policy calls for its mention in the opening if it is relevant to the subjects's "notability."
To determine what notability means here, one must go to Wikipedia:Notability (people), the notability criteria guideline for Wikipedia.
That guideline states, inter alia, that "Notability on Wikipedia for people is based on the following criterion: The person has been a primary subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person. This criterion includes published works in all forms, such as newspaper articles, magazine articles, books, scholarly papers, and television documentaries ...."
Thus, where one is noted as being a Jew in multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the person, such as newspaper articles, magazine articles, books, and the like, they meet the notability requirement. And thus it would be appropriate to include that fact in the opening paragraph of their bio.
Some commentators seem to confuse what is meant by "notable" with their own, non-Wiki definition. That is a cause it would appear of much of the discussion on this subject above.
Notability does not mean that they are famous for being of that group.
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- Yes, mention of Glickman's ethnicity is relevant but NOT in the lead sentence, imho. --Tom 13:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
