Talk:Martha Washington

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More information about this article... The following comments have been left for this page: In the section "Martha Washington and slavery" the last sentence reads: "she whipped her slaves and was so mean that she killed the ones who didn't do it right" The sentence doesn't make much sense in the context of the section; is it a rogue insertion? On using a modern Virginia state flag by Martha's birth information: I'm not sure what the policy in the matter might be, but while the Virginia state seal was adopted in 1776 and therefore dates to Martha's lifetime, the first official Virginia flag was adopted in 1861. Source, Flags of the World web site, http://www.fotw.us/flags/us-va.html. Axsc2 (talk) 10:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC) (edit)

Contents 1 Edits by 71.0.89.28 2 Estate Management 3 Double check birthday 4 She was born on the Chestnut Grove Plantation in New Kent,VA 5 Reworking Bio 6 Another image available 7 On the money 8 Martha Dandridge Custis Washington 9 Flag 10 First Lady VS Consort to the President 11 Religion 12 Pronunciation help

[edit] Edits by 71.0.89.28

From the recent sequence of edits, it appears you wish to blame President and Mrs. Washington for the entire institution of chattel slavery in the United States. Keep in mind that these were people of their time, and place, and that slavery was an accepted institution. A neutral point of view is required on all Wikipedia articles. Words implying strong emotion or culpabilty are not appropriate. Historical views on these issues vary -- and while all are welcome to be presented, it is appropriate to identify those historians, documentation and opinions which are in the minority or questioned by their peers. So, if you continue to make edits which reflect a strong POV, you will continue to be reverted or your edits will be altered to remove the POV. This is Wikipedia policy. If you would like to discuss your opinion, your point of view, or the point of view of your sources, this discussion page is the place. Please make comments there before you edit the article again. Thank you. WBardwin 07:46, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

don't think that 71.0.89.28 was trying to "blame" anyone for slavery. I think you're making way too much of a few fact changes. "Keep in mind that these were people of their time, and place, and that slavery was an accepted institution." Not so -- G. Washington did NOT accept slavery. He released his slaves. I think you're showing your POV here. comments by 128.143.193.229 12:56, 7 February 2006

It was an accepted institution at the time, although somewhat controversial -- I didn't say anything about George's personal pov or his decisions about his slave's freedom at/near the end of his life. Although George and Martha were "good" masters, they bought and sold people during most of their adult lives, moved people from estate to estate and seperated families. These were common practices, and very few people of the time found them as abhorrant as we might do. So, if we judge them by our own perspective, we are inserting a POV into the article. WBardwin 20:26, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm pleased to see that someone has risen in support of my fixes to this entry. I humbly suggest that you might want to look at Wiencek's book. He brings new light on what was "accepted" or not in that era about slavery. You may be showing your own POV! Also, if I may make some gentle corrections, with apologies, "seperated" is properly "separated" and "abhorrant" is actually "abhorrent." comments by 67.76.91.156

The revisionist nature of Wiencek's book, and the fact that other historians call his conclusions into question, are included in the New York Times Book Review. Washington's negative (from our perspective) relationships with slaves are also discussed. New York Times Book Review 207.200.116.130 08:47, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard the phrase "southern institution" as a locution that would demand ironical quotes. Did the author mean "peculiar institution"? First of all, slavery was not uniquely southern (our family's farm in Upstate NY still had a whipping post on it when we purchased it in 1932--or so my great-grandmother claimed). But, in relation to the south, it was called the "peculiar institution.68.161.219.118 (talk) 03:17, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Estate Management

What information do you have that Martha managed the Custis Estate after her marriage to GW? His letters show that he [dealt with the overseers on the Custis properties.

Thanks for coming to the talk page. I recently read Brady(Brady, Patricia. "Martha Washington: An American Life), and reviewed some other material. Brady noted that after Daniel Custis' death, all managerial functions, including letters to the family's London agents were taken over by Martha. Not surprisingly, as Custis had no close male relatives other than his young son.

What may be surprising from our perspective was that some of these activities and correspondence continued after Martha's remarriage. Well catalogued documents show that George was an active manager of his, his wife's, and his stepchildren's property. He considered himself an involved and progessive farmer. But Martha was involved both in purchases and in sales of the properties' products. I think most 20th/21st century people discount the very important management contributions of the women in households and large properties in this period. They were not limited to buying gowns and putting on dinner parties - but were responsible for large scale sales and purchases of commodities, for feeding and clothing slave and employed workers, and for maintaining several households. The loss of the wife/mother of the family was a severe blow to the well-being of the large economic enterprise of the southern plantation. Male responsibilities focused more on crops, livestock, building, stocks and investments, and regretably on the buying and selling of people. Men also tended to supervise a property manager for each seperate piece of real estate.

Documents also show that as George's military and political duties took him from home, Martha stepped into some of his functions as well. She supervised some of the property managers and forwarded their reports to George when they were apart. Although she consulted with him about other issues and concerns of the property, some decisions were made without asking his opinion. Her management/involvement may have been compounded by the relatively early death of her son in the Revolutionary war -- leaving several young Custis children, two of which became the Washington's formal wards. Unfortunately, Martha burned what she considered to be personal correspondence between herself and George shortly before her death. This leaves business correspondence and household records as the most complete primary sources for her activities. From that perspective, I think it fair that they share credit in this article for managing the Custis estate. Hope you agree. What sources or material have you been reading about Martha and George? WBardwin 08:06, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Double check birthday

Anon contribution: "The Encyclopedia Americana, Colonial Williamsburg and The White House sites all give Martha Washington's birthday as June 2, 1731, not Jun 21, 1731 as listed in Wikipedia."

looks like it could have been an easy vandalism. Will check the back files -- please look for confirmation. WBardwin 22:23, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] She was born on the Chestnut Grove Plantation in New Kent,VA

If anyone wants to edit it to say this, as this is the exact location of her birth, not just "near Williamburg". (btw, i know this because i lived on the grounds where she was born, and teh government has this huge landmark thing that says Martha Washington was born here...) User:Me 3:53 am Feb. 21 2006

[edit] Reworking Bio

I removed this phrase from the 2nd paragraph of the biography, talking about Martha's son Jack:

his widow Eleanor Custis was a daugther of Benedict Swingate Calvert-son of Charles Calvert, 5th Baron Baltimore.

I was restructuring run on sentences and just couldn't find a workable way to include this information in her biography. If there was some reference as to why Eleanor gave Martha the children to raise, then I could see it fitting in. Otherwise, it's a non sequitur.JordeeBec 04:40, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Another image available

FYI, I just uploaded to Commons the anachronistic portrait of Martha Washington that hangs in the East Room of the White House. — Eoghanacht ^talk 20:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On the money

She was also first woman on U.S. money, a US$1 silver certificate; anybody know year? Include it? Trekphiler 04:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

She was second woman after Pocahontas who appeared on US currency:

"1865: A national bank note with "The Battle of Lexington" and "Columbia Leading a Procession" on either side of the face and obligation text conspicuously in the middle. The reverse features "The Baptism of Pocahontas" in black, and a green border."

[edit] Martha Dandridge Custis Washington

Is this really the most appropriate way to refer to her in the opening para? She was born Martha Dandridge. When she was first married, she was Martha Custis. After marrying George, she was Martha Washington. It may be common practice in the US to continue using maiden names and previous married names, but this seems to breach Wikipedia guidelines. Our practice is to use a person's full legal name, but this ain't it, imo. JackofOz 12:22, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but historically she has been known by the full three surnames. It might be best to leave it be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.116.3 (talk) 00:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flag

Shouldn't she have a British flag next to her Born date? I think that is a modern, not colonial, Virginia flag, but I really do not know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geo8rge (talk • contribs) 03:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] First Lady VS Consort to the President

Consort to the President or something along those lines should be used instead of "First Lady" which was not a title until the late 1800s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.116.3 (talk) 01:00, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

Martha Washington was Church of England I believe, and the National First Ladies Biography link says the same. The article says Baptist, and I'm curious as to what resource describes her as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.163.203.224 (talk) 02:44, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation help

I am in contact with a professional voice actor who is trying to record a spoken version of George Washington and he wants to hear someone pronounce "Martha Dandridge Custis". If anyone would be willing to call him up or even leave a voice mail with the proper pronunciation, please email me and I will send you his contact info. Thanks. howcheng {chat} 18:04, 30 May 2008 (UTC)