Talk:Maroon (people)

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 Maroon (people) was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: December 13, 2007
Zuni girl; photograph by Edward S. Curtis, 1903 This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project's talk page.
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Contents

[edit] Merge

Info on the page Maroon should be merged here Guettarda 22:38, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The page Maroon was made into a disambiguation page since the above coment was made here. --Brian Z 20:57, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "the governor"

Later, the governor signed a treaty promising the Maroons 2500 acres (10 km²) in two locations, because they presented a threat to the British

The governor of where? Brazil? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.151.81.206 (talk • contribs) (01:51, 24 February 2006)

[edit] haiti

should not haiti be included as claiming maroons as an important part of its history? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.240.229.65 (talk • contribs) (10:34, 3 May 2006)

[edit] djuka

The picture captions include the word "Djuka". But there is no mention of this term in the text. Worse, the page for "Djuka" just redirects back to "Maroon". I'm left not knowing how a "Djuka Maroon" differs from an unqualified "Maroon" - is it a particular tribe? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.92.168.141 (talk • contribs) (10:19, 27 May 2006)

Hmmm, see this edit. —Khoikhoi 01:29, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The "tribes' of Maroon peoples in Suriname

I will quote below a passage found at: http://lucy.ukc.ac.uk/EthnoAtlas/Hmar/Cult_dir/Culture.7834 describing the various groups of Maroons or "Bush Negros" In Suriname which should answer the question above about the Djukas. John Hill 02:48, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

"Today, according to Price (1976), there are six Bush Negro tribes. He divides them into two main groups on the basis of cultural and linguistic differences, as well as location: (1) the Eastern Tribes, consisting of the Djuka (Aucaner, Awka), the Aluku (Aluku nenge, Boni), and the Paramaka (Paramacca); and (2) the Central Tribes, consisting of the Saramaka (Saramacca), the Matawai, and the Kwinti (cf. the tribal distribution map in Price 1976: 5). The Djuka and Saramaka are the largest tribes, with estimated populations of 15,000 to 20,000 each. The Aluku, Matawai, and Paramaka are much smaller, with estimated populations of around 2,000 each. The smallest tribe is the Kwinti, with fewer than 500 people. Three main creole languages are spoken in Surinam: (1) Sranan (Sranan Tongo, Taki-Taki), which was once the language of the plantation slaves and is now the "national language" of Surinam, spoken throughout the country as a lingua franca; (2) Ndjuka, spoken by the Djuka, Aluku, and Paramaka; and (3) Saramaccan, spoken by the Saramaka and Matawai. It is not clear where the language of the Kwinti fits since it has not been adequately described. The Voegelins (1977) list a fourth language, Aucaan, but give no further information about it. Both Price and the Voegelins agree that Sranan and Ndjuka are, with little effort, mutually intelligible; while Saramaccan is the most distinct of the three languages and mutually unintelligible with Sranan. (It is not specified whether Saramaccan and Ndjuka are also mutually unintelligible.) There is one key difference between Price and the Voegelins with respect to the classification of these languages. The latter classify all of them as English-based creole languages belonging to the Atlantic branch of the West Germanic group of Germanic within Indo-European. Price would presumably agree except in the case of Saramaccan. If his estimate of the derivations of the Saramaccan vocabulary is correct (i.e., 50 percent African, 20 percent Portuguese, 20 percent English, and 10 percent Dutch and Amerindian), then Saramaccan cannot be classified as an English-based creole. Furthermore, Saramaccan is fully a tone language (cf. Price 1976: 35-36; Voegelin 1977: 142-44)."

[edit] Capitalization

Should the word Maroon be capitalized? Its capitalization is inconsistent in the article. -Pgan002 10:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jamaican material removed 26 January 2007

The following material was added by an IP editor (IP 172.188.176.124) under Usage and other terms by someone who apparently did not read the whole article. Much of it is already in the section on Jamaica. The Jamaican section could do with a good rewrite.

Removed material:

Following the seizure of the Spanish colony of Jamaica by a British force sent to the region by Oliver Cromwell, the local Maroons fought a prolonged insurgency campaign against the new occupier. Amongst their leaders was a female chief known as 'Nanny', now an official national hero in independent Jamaica. Local legend maintains that Nanny was able to catch British musket balls with her teeth and throw them back at the advancing redcoats.
Fighting from their mountain hideouts and protected by thick vegetation and the tropical climate, the Maroons prevailed and were eventually able to negotiate a peace treaty with the British. This treaty awarded them local self rule within two parts of the Jamaican hinterland, and they remain there today, governed independently by their 'Colonel of Maroons', a little known remnant of the original slave population brought from Africa by the Spanish in the 1500s.
The Maroons have their own language which is largely based on West African languages and when a Nigerian film crew visited them in the early 1980s, they were able to converse without recourse to English.

Verification and citation is needed for some of this. --Bejnar 03:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Most of this information is common knowledge. The article should clearly delineate Maroons on different islands from each other and from South American Maroons. Their history is different, and they should not be lumped together. Josh a brewer 02:46, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Excuse me, but "most of" what is "common knowledge"? The specific information about Jamaica, or about Maroons in general? I am really not being a smartass, either, I am simply unclear as to what you are saying. I agree with you about clearly delineating the different groups of Maroons and their different histories. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 03:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America

Should this article be listed as part of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America? I believe that it should, since all Maroon peoples are, to some degree or another, descended from indigenous peoples, in combination with escaped slaves, and fugitive Europeans. I believe Maroons would fit in the same way the Métis do. Any thoughts? ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 03:28, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

How do you know that "all" Maroon people are part indigenous? This MAY be true (and probably is with some groups - particularly on islands), but to my knowledge, some other groups - such as in Suriname - have (and have had) as little contact as possible with the local "Indians" (or Europeans, for that matter). The Suriname Maroons (or "Bushnegroes") are certainly of mostly African descent, and, as far as I know, consider themselves to be of African descent. I think we could get into some serious difficulties here. The Métis are, by self-definition, part "Indian" and part-European - so their situation is - I would contend - somewhat different. Are there any Maroons who would like to comment? John Hill (talk) 03:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA assessment

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    B. MoS compliance:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:


1:

  • Minor grammar issues, e.g. clauses such as “As early as 1655”, “to a significant extent”, “in some cases”, “until recently”, “amid increasing hostilities”, etc. need to be offset by commas and “were usually displaced; as sugar cane” is not correct use of a semi-colon.
  • Several WP:LEAD violations, e.g. lead does not summarize all major points of the article and lead should not contain unique information (i.e. etymology).
  • Use of weasel words, e.g. “on some islands”, “only on some of the larger islands”, “in some cases”, “some Maroons kept their freedom” , etc.
  • Use of peacock words, e.g. “faced great odds”, “were able to thrive”, “vibrant community”, “the interesting history”, etc.
  • Phrasing such as “remain to this day (2006)” is discourage as, for obvious reasons here, it quickly becomes outdated.
  • Maroon should be capitalized, e.g. “In Cuba, there were maroon communities”

2:

  • Aforementioned phrasing issues cause me to question whether information is truly from a published source and not from an editor, e.g. “faced great odds”, “communities were able to thrive”, etc. Also, phrasing such as “one of the most influential”, the “African traditions” paragraph and “The Boni Maroon Wars in Suriname by Wim S.M. Hoogbergen gives an overall picture” sentence are all questionable.
  • Lead states “Maroon populations are found in Jamaica, Amazon River Basin to the American states of Florida and North Carolina”. Where exactly are they in Florida and North Carolina? I suppose anything is possible in the Appalachians and Everglades, but I can’t believe this without a source. Also, if this is true, content will be needed to address Maroons in these areas.
  • The paragraph beginning with “Beginning in the late 17th and 18th centuries…” needs citations supporting the statistics/numbers therein.

3.

  • Content is often contradictory, e.g. lead states “A Maroon … was a runaway slave”. Article later states “Guyana and Suriname, still have large Maroon populations” and provides 1955 photos of Maroons. Article, therefore, implies both that Maroons are still in existence and Maroons are not in existence. Further, article asserts “the slave trade [was abolished] in 1807”. Unless Maroons live up to 200 years, they cannot still be runaway slaves.
  • Article is further contradictory in that it asserts Maroons struggled “to survive against white attackers” and “had to fight of white attackers” and face “colonial armies”, yet they were powerful enough to “fight to a draw” and sign treaties freeing them. Better description of 1) notable conflicts and 2) accumulation of might sufficient to defeat “colonial armies” is necessary. Further, the article implies this treaty was with the British, yet article history begins with “slaves had escaped from Spanish and Portuguese owners” (essentially defining Maroons as escaped slaves of those countries) and no mention of the British is made until discussion of Jamaican Maroons.
  • Article is further contradictory, as it states “faced great odds to … obtain food”, yet asserts “The jungles around the Caribbean Sea offered food, shelter, and isolation for the escaped slaves”.
  • Non sequitur sentences, e.g. “Sir Francis Drake enlisted several 'cimaroons' during his raids on the Spanish” and “Another author who wrote on the Boni-history is John Gabriel Stedman”.
  • Article is a hodgepodge of information, experiences, etc. pertaining to Maroons in several geographic areas. This lack of organization makes the article difficult to read and/or follow. Perhaps history sections should be divided into “main” geographic areas; several geographic areas mentioned in the lead are not addressed.
  • References themselves indicate where article is lacking content, e.g. no discussion, or identified discussion, of the Boni Maroon Wars, no discussion of the settlements in Cuba, no discussion of “religion as politics”, etc.
  • Nonsensical statements such as “Seeking to separate themselves from whites, the Maroons gained in power and amid increasing hostilities, they raided and pillaged plantations”. In this context, by definition, an escaped slave is “separated from whites”. Further, one seeking to separate oneself from the whites would not go about it by attacking white plantations.

General:

  • Article appears to be significantly lacking in organization and content. Please let me know if elaboration or assistance is needed. Ɛƚƈơƅƅơƚɑ talk 19:43, 13 December 2007 (UTC)