Talk:Marine (military)

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[edit] Innacurate description of modern Marine role

The article says of the primary Marine role: "Operating from ships, they are trained to land on and capture a section of coast-line."

This is not true. Marines are an expeditionary force and although they are generally the tip of the spear in any invasion, coastline invasions have rarely occured in recent wars. Marines are primarily transported to the battlefield by ship however.

For example: Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan were not primarily involved in coastal invasions-- although they played, and still play, a key role in both the invasion and occupation of both countries.

Sean7phil (talk) 01:13, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for citation

From the article: "the majority of the world's "Marine" troops are American."

I'm not disputing this; it sounds very plausible, given the current strength of the US Marine Corps. However, a claim this remarkable - that the US Marine Corps is larger than the marine corps of every other nation in the world put together - could probably use some sort of citation to back it up. Could someone add one? -- Haeleth 14:06, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I edited it instead. Didn't seem relevant? Hakluyt bean 20:41, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Ah well :) Someone disagreed and reversed the edit. I had a think and it still doesn't strike me as encyclopedic and probably not the kind of assertion that will have a citation (?). It also on reflection begins to seem a doubtful claim, thinking of the various militaries around the world, China, Russia, etc. etc. and the different ways marine contingents are identified as corps or subsidiary to the Navy or Army would make it very difficult to verify. So anyway I've gone back to my edit (hopefully better worded than I managed the first time). Maybe if firm figures could be given for marine units listed in wikipedia that would at least produce a stat, but I've a feeling that would be quite a bit of work. Maybe someone's up for it, but not me :) -- Hakluyt bean 01:01, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree that it will be difficult to produce "no shit" facts and figures to back this up but I will almost guarantee that it is true. Most nations do not have any kind of force projection and that is what a Marine Corps is. Only Russia, China, England and a few others have decent Navies and their Marine units are not that big. This is what I can find on Wikipedia and a few websites about 7 large Marine forces in the world. The other biggies I missed are the Netherlands and Thailand but they are no more than 10,000 each. No matter where you look the numbers are not that great. So I think it is not that far off to say that the USMC is larger than all of the other Marine units put together.

[edit] France

Marine armors (Chars de marine) in French marines are not considered as a separate entity they still are infantry although they are equipped with light tanks (AMX 10 RC). As far as I know there are only two regiments of (Chars de marine): RICM (Regiment d'Infanterie Chars de Marine, which is the new name of Regiment d'Infanterie Colonial du Maroc, they just kept the acronym) and 1er RIMA (1st regiment of marine infantry).

[edit] Troupes de Marine

Why do some contributors insist, in saying that Troupes de Marine are loose translation, when they fulfil the exact same function of amphibious warfare and when the very English word marine was most likely borrowed from French? Troupes de Marine are part of the Army since they are not seamen but infantry, nevertheless they operate from ships belonging to the Navy such as The Mistral type ships. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blastwizard (talk • contribs) 08:11, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] generic name for marine units... ("Marines" not "Marine Corps")

-Is "marine corps" really the generic name for marine units? Hakluyt bean 19:47, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

-NO it is not, this is why this entire article needs to be REMOVED from Wikipedia aside from that, the quality is horrible

-I don't think it should be removed. It needs a lot of fixing & it needs to be moved the the title "Marines" or "Amphibious Forces." MCG 25 Aug 2006

I have moved it to "Marines (military)" since "marine corps" is purely US. However, "Marines" in the plural, as suggested above, might be a better title. Comments? Mesoso 12:24, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Marines NOT the most elite of the Armed Forces.

For the individual who has continued to re-edit the above statement into the "article" page (concerning Marines):

Marines are NOT the most elite in the Armed Forces! I am a former Marine Infantryman and I can tell you that there are, most definitely, more elite units than the Marines, and we're talking about the standards here for the basic Marine which is the rifleman. I'm sure Navy Seals would harshly argue that the average Marine doesn't compare in the slightest to them, as would Army Rangers and other Special Operations Groups within the Armed Forces.

However, as far as our military's basic standard for "gun-fighters", than YES, Marines are the most elite (only in that aspect). After all, the only other branch that we could compare ourselves to would be the Army's "soldier", as the Air Force, Navy, and Coast Guard do not have a standard grunt-type occupation.

Please, feel free to argue here. I consider myself to be a proud Marine, but more importantly, a realistic one.

[edit] Im a Marine

I just want to say I am a Marine, in the armed forces marines are the craziest and would go any lenghts just to get some action, as history follows all of our enemy forces would much rather go against anyone else than the Marines themselves. Its all in the pages, your a marine and a proud one too, you should know how our enemy would back off of us more than any other branch in WW1 and 2 and currently. Like you said a realistic one, all marines think they're the best and we are. Even the General of other branches agree just look it up, it could be famous usmc quotes or anything else. We're marines and proud to be, we're very patriotic and devilsh too. thats how we got the nickname, from our enemy they would call us Devil Dogs, Why?, because they feared us more than anyone else. We made the biggest difference at Iwo Jima and we can do it again. What im saying is that we are elites thats what marines are naturaly, but we're not the only heroes. "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." -General Perishing, U.S. Army

"I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer fighting organization in the world!" General Douglas Macarthur, U.S. Army

I think if the article is regarding the standard unit in the average armed force and their respective qualities than Marines would be superior due to their training, ethos etc. but if we are talking unit by unit then definetly there are more highly skilled/trained units out there, the article seems ambiguous as to which it is referring: Marines as a branch or Marines as a smaller unit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghost175 (talk • contribs) 07:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Too Bad

I would love to argue with you, but I do not know how to contact you. The US Marine Corps is by far the most elite of the "ARMED FORCES". Navy Seals, Army Rangers, etc. are Special Operations Forces. I do appreciate your realism, but you stated it yourself, "Special Operations Groups within the Armed Forces".

As far as your basis for argument. The US Marine Corps is not just a basis for infantrymen. We continue to out perform with limited and/or outdated assets. To be a Marine, you must recongnize the "Make it Happen" and that is what we do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cpinson (talk • contribs) 22:44 UTC, May 17, 2006

[edit] Independant status of the USMC

"However in some countries Marines are no longer part of the navy (notably the United States Marine Corps which has become an independent armed force)."

This statement is not really true.

The US Navy and US Marine Corps have separate but equal military commanders (the Chief of Naval Operations and the Commandant of the Marine Corps, respectively), who are both members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Both are subject to the supreme military commander - the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - who could be a general or admiral of the Army, Air Force, Navy, or Marines.

However, the US Marine Corps is still part of the branch of government known as the Department of the Navy. Therefore, both the US Navy and the US Marine Corps are subject to the civilian administration of the Secretary of the Navy, and have been so since they were created.

On the other hand, the US Air Force originated with the US Army Air Corps. Until 1947, the US Army (with its Air Corps) were under the administration of the Secretary of War (meaning ground war). In 1947, the armed forces were reorganized. The Department of War was broken up into the Department of the Army and the Department of the Air Force (formerly the Army Air Corps), and these were joined with the Department of the Navy as sub-departments under the administration of the Department of Defense, which did not exist until this time. Since the Marine Corps did not wish to be joined with the Army, they remained a separate military organization within the Department of the Navy.

[edit] It is amazing what you learn in Wikipedia

According to this article Argentina's Marine Corps was founded in 1537. That is quite impressive given that the nation of Argentina did not exist until 300 years later. Previously added by Greenshed at 20:00, on 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yeah, ain't it??

Yet they still trace their lineage to that of the Spanish Marines. Ain't that something? Check out their website.--Tomtom9041 (talk) 16:31, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The USMC traces its history to 1775 when there was not a USA, so what's your point?--71.242.127.31 (talk) 15:04, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Uh, yeah, but they don't trace their lineage to the Royal Marines. There's a bit of a difference here. - BillCJ (talk) 00:27, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Argentine Marines in the Falklands War

Also, the 5th bn suffered 16 dead, that´s not significant casualties in a 1000 man batallion —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.49.238.136 (talk) 19:26, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Casualties are also wounded personnel, but never mind. You wrote that "the 5th Battalion of the Infanteria de Marina fought against two Army and Royal Marines Brigades in the Falklands War/Malvinas War". Considering that the Task Force only had two brigades (3 Commando Brigade & 5 Infantry Brigade) to fight all the Argentine ground forces, something is wrong!
The 5th Battalion of the Infanteria de Marina were guarding Mount Tumbledown, Mount William & Sapper Hill outside Stanley. 2nd Battalion, Scots Guards attacked Mount Tumbledown, 1st Battalion of Gurkhas took control of Mount William which had been abandoned while the remnants of 1st Battalion, Welsh Guards beefed up with A & C Companies of 40 Commando, Royal Marines reached the unguarded Sapper Hill. On the bottom line, only three British battalions were involved with BIM 5 (+ RI 6), not two whole brigades. Regards, Necessary Evil (talk) 20:41, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] India (MARCOS)

MARCOS are a special operations unit that are really small in number and don't perform that same tasks that most marines of the world do. They shouldn't be on there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.62.76.114 (talk) 02:01, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling (case)

I propose we use the lower case for all mentions of marine in general, and start it with an upper case M only where that use is standard, such as for example in United States Marine Corps and the Marines that compose the force (at least their site uses caps). Namely, if it's the type of armed forces officer or member and not a specific title, it's not capitalized, otherwise it is, if applicable. Who is like God? (talk) 18:01, 8 May 2008 (UTC)