Talk:Maribor

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193.77.132.128 nice contributions. Can you give also the distressfully famous original Hitler's sentence when he visited Maribor. And try not to be anonymous. Best regards. (Lep pozdrav). --XJamRastafire 01:37 Oct 15, 2002 (UTC)

'The distressfully famous original Hitler's sentence when he visited Maribor' :

Naredite mi to de?elo spet nem?ko! Make this land (spodnja ?tajerska) german again!

I just removed some text from the page. Here's the explanation:

• "Liberation" is "liberation after occupation by nazi Germany". That is the standard and entirely uncontroversial name for the event.
• There was no loss of Eastern European market, and new market conditions applyed to whole of Slovenia. The reason for Maribor's downfall as a major industrial center is exactly that most of its products were produced for Yugoslav markets, a large part of them for the federal army. Zocky 13:41, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

BT2, what's your problem? Hitler's visit and allied bombing of the city were important historic events. And as the page says, there were many Germans living in the town who welcomed Hitler. Also, many local Slovenians at the time were nostalgic of Austria-Hungary and initially welcomed Germans. It's just a part of local history. Zocky 15:38, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed visit of Hitler

The article currently says that Hitler gave a popular speech in the town in which he stated "make this land German again". User:213.161.12.86 has stated that Hitler's visit to the city was low-key, while the quoted text was made in Graz prior to the visit. Does anyone have further information on this topic? Olessi 06:34, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for not seeing this earlier. Apart from there being no reason for Hitler to wish to make upper Styria (where Graz is) "German again" (since it was already German), i found this and this page (in Slovenian) say that it happened in Maribor, and more specificaly in the Castle. As for what kind of welcome he received, see this page at the Maribor Museom of National Liberation's web site. Zocky 22:31, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] HITLER'S SPEECH STILL DISPUTED

My remark was NOT about Hitler's visit to Maribor (which actually did happen), it was about HIS SPEECH, that DID NOT HAPPEN IN MARIBOR!

I have checked both links:

1st link (http://www.rtvslo.si/dobrojutro/dogodki.php?read=04-26). This link is no proof for Hitler's speech. Text in this link only says that a newspaper from Graz (Tagespost) reported Hitler's visit in Maribor and quoted his words. IT DOESN'T MENTION THAT HITLER SAID THOSE WORDS IN MARIBOR!!!

2nd link (http://maribor.uni-mb.si/vodnik/1250/grad.htm). This link mentions that Hitler made this speech in the castle. There are other links that say Hitler spoke those words on the balcony of the city hall (Rotovž - see http://uni-protokolle.de/Lexikon/Maribor.html). Neither of both is true. This link was created by amateurs who simply quoted what was being taught in primary school, it simply has no historical value.

About 3rd link: it's the only valuable link, link to Museum of national liberation (Muzej narodne osvoboditve - MNO) in Maribor. The article is written in english, so I think the admin of this page could read it and change the page according to it. The author of the text on this page (on MNO's site) is dr. Marjan Žnidarič, so I guess he has some kind of authority in this field (having PhD and being responsible for the page).

Text on this page says (quote):

"...By the Nazi occupation of Spring 1941, Slovenes in Maribor and Slovene Styria were condemned to physical extermination i.e. complete Germanization. That was discernible already from the istruction by the leader of the German Reich Adolf Hitler to Dr. Siegfried Uiberreither, the future chief of civil administration from Lower Styria, when the former ordered him at the end of March or beginning of April: »Make this land again German for me!« In order to convince himself personally, as to how the Germanization of Slovene Styria was bein carried out, Hitler had on 26 April, 1941, just three weeks after the attack upon Yugoslavia, visited Maribor..."

(Please note the stated time period: "...end of March or beginning of April..." When exactly was Hitler's visit to Maribor? ;)

and further

"...He concluded his visit to Maribor at Grad (the Castle), where Maribor Germans prepared a majstic reception. On that occasion, Hitler publicly thanked Pastor Hans Baron, the pre-War leader of the Kulturbund in Slovenia and his collaborators for the successful fifth column activity in Slovene Styria prior to April 1941. Separately, he received representatives of the Kočevje Germans, also commending the work of the German youth in Maribor. In early afternoon hours, Hitler returned to Gradec/Graz by special train, from where he continued towards Celovec/Klagenfurt..."

No words about his speech presumably being made in the castle (or elsewhere in Maribor).

There are more links and quotes, ie:

http://www.h-net.msu.edu/~ethnic/archives/logs/mar96/0114.html

"...The occupation and "re-Germanization" of Lower Styria occurred under their direction, with little interference from Berlin and according to elaborate plans they had developed in Graz during the 1930s..."

About Zocky's comment: "...Apart from there being no reason for Hitler to wish to make upper Styria (where Graz is) "German again" (since it was already German)..." It's plainly ignorant. I have never said that upper Styria was to be germanized, but the orders for this act were given in Graz - either spoken or given in letter, it doesn't matter (not in Maribor). "...this land..." from Hitler's speech means Lower Styria and not Upper Styria.

Just think logically and you'll see it couldn't have happened in Maribor. The link that even Zocky mentions says "...end of March beginning of April...". At the end of March there was no war going on in Kingdom of Yugoslavia (yet); Germany attacked Yugoslavia on April 6th, and Hitler visited Maribor on April 26th, to see for himself how his orders were carried out. The plans for re-germanization couldn't have been made just over night (just take a look at the upper 'edu' link).

I'm sorry, I never saw your original comment, just the above summary. Let me address the points as I see them:

• The visit was obviously not low-key (the reception is described as "majestic", plus see the photos in upper links).
• I don't know where he first said "make me this land German again". However, the fact that he may have gave that order orally or in writing before his visit to Maribor does not logically preclude him from repeating it in Maribor. We have some sources which say that he did say those words in Maribor (though the German one is useless, since it's a translation of an old version of this article), and no sources that specifically deny this. What's to be done? Zocky 03:40, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

==

Maybe change the text to something like Hitler's visit to be "...in context with his orders to make this land German again...", leaving out the part where those words were actually said? That way, the text would be historically acceptable.

removed irrelevant information (german name)193.77.249.79 (talk) 15:59, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

:IP 193.77.249.79, it is standard in Wiki articles to include the names of places in other languages once, at the beginning, to recognise those other names. Regarding Maribor, while I agree with Viator Slovenicus that it is relevant to the article (after all, Maribor was a majority German-speaking place after the 1st World War), that is not the point. The point is the standardisation of articles. Therefore, your removal of Marburg was correctly reverted. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 22:52, 29 February 2008 (UTC)