Image talk:Map Land of Israel.jpg
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[edit] Why does the map not show to the Euphrates?
(This discussion was pasted from Talk:Promised Land)
It's in the text. The map is derived from the text. So... -- 12.116.162.162 17:43, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- The map is not derived from the text, it is derived from the two passages in the Bible, Numbers 34:1-12 and Ezekiel 47:13-20. Neither mention the Euphrates, so it is not on the map.
- The Euphrates is mentioned in Genesis 15:18-21. I chose not to map this passage because i) the border is too vague to draw on a map, and ii) it is contradicted by Numbers and Ezekiel, both more detailed and very different. Emmanuelm (talk) 16:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] New map
(This discussion was pasted from Talk:Land of Israel)
I added a map of the Land of Israel, as defined in Numbers and Ezekiel. At first, I looked for a similar map but, to my surprise, could not find one that clearly displayed the names of the cities and mountains as spelled in the Bible. This information is 2,000 year old, yet no one drew this map before. Two days later, it was done! Why have I never seen this map before? Is there a big conspiracy or a religious edict I am not aware of? Emmanuelm 01:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Your map is not right by the order of Halacha l'maaser. The true map is by the order of Bereishit, as guided by Rav Avraham Shapira Ztl and HaRav HaGaon Mordechai Eliyahu, relating to the works of Tevozot HaAretz and Rav M. Eliyahu's commentary on the Kitzur Shulchan Arukh. Even Chafetz Chaim Zt'L would disgree with this map- Rakach
- Wow, Rakach, your knowledge is truly impressive. Could you please produce the "correct" map for all to see? As I said in the map page, it is based on several sources, mainly the The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia Online. I would love to read the discussion of the learned men you mentioned and correct my map accordingly. In the meantime, stop deleting it. Emmanuelm 15:40, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
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- Halachically l'maaser, the map is the goyishe view, not the Jewish view. In the meantime, its being deleted.
- Hey, anonymous Halachi, Wikipedia is not Kosher; rabbis do not make the rules here. I thought I made myself clear in the above comment: do not delete this map unless you have another one to show! Sheeesh. Emmanuelm (talk) 16:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
- So who made the rule that the map you have concocted from your chosen Bible-believing sources should stay unless someone produces another map? If you look at real peer-reviewed academic sources, you will find that there is a lot of uncertainty about the location or even the existence of locations mentioned in the Bible. Too much uncertainty to draw a map - it would have so many alternate lines and dots on it as to be unreadable. So please tell us the WP Policy that says your creation (original research?) should not be trashed.
- There are people who make maps of magical "ley lines" - according to your thinking their maps should appear in WP until someone produces an alternate map of magical "ley lines". Of course, any map of magical "ley lines" is a POC like your map and should be trashed.
- WP Policy says you have to provide peer-reviewed sources if available,your creation must be deleted or moved to the talk page until you provide them. There is no shortage of peer-reviewed sources - just Google and you will find many, but few will agree with your concocted map.
- Better yet, why not submit your creation to a peer reviewed journal - since a brilliant guy like you has spent two whole days on it it will surely be accepted for publication and then be incorporated into textbooks so college students will receive the benefits of your excellent superior brilliant genius. Fourtildas (talk) 07:23, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- Hey, anonymous Halachi, Wikipedia is not Kosher; rabbis do not make the rules here. I thought I made myself clear in the above comment: do not delete this map unless you have another one to show! Sheeesh. Emmanuelm (talk) 16:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
- Halachically l'maaser, the map is the goyishe view, not the Jewish view. In the meantime, its being deleted.
The map is rather bizarre. It includes territories the Israelites never inhabited (Lebanon, mostly), but excludes territories they did rule - Bashan and Gilead. john k (talk) 07:41, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
- I agree, John. For example, in the following verses of Numbers, the tribes of Gad and Reuben were given land clearly outside of this border.
- But I disagree that it the map is "bizarre". I would use the word "hypothetical". I did not trace a map of the Israel that was, I traced the map that the Bible (God) dictated, following step by step the Numbers and Ezekiel text. That's how it came out; I do not pretend to understand. You are surprised because you have in mind the map of the historical Israel, the Israel that truly was, which looks like Image:1759 map Holy Land and 12 Tribes.jpg. Theory vs. history, that's all. Emmanuelm (talk) 13:49, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
