Talk:Man-Kzin Wars

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Contents 1 Events of the books 2 Canonicity 3 Four Wars, not Six 4 Brin 5 Canonicity re: protectors

[edit] Events of the books

I only have a few of the MKW books on hand; hopefully others can add events from the other ones (especially the later ones which I lack, mostly 8 onwards). Kuralyov 03:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Canonicity

For some reason, many Niven fans-- and at least one MKW author-- insist on claiming the MKW stories are "canonical" simply because Larry Niven edits the series. Niven did write, in the Introduction to MWK volume IV: "Jim Baen [the series is published by Baen Books] and I have solicited stories which we bought and then rejected because they didn't fit our standards."

This has been misinterpreted by some as meaning Niven rejects stories for being non-canonical, ignoring the fact that he is acting as editor. Editors reject stories because they don't think they're good enough to pay for or publish, or because they're too similar to another story, not because they are or are not "canonical".

In fact, Niven has never addressed the "caononicity" of other authors' MKW stories, other than to say definitely that A Darker Geometry isn't canon. So I'm once gain changing the "Canonicity" section to reflect reality, and hoping this time no one changes it to reflect their personal misinterpretation. --Lensman003 (talk) 13:20, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Four Wars, not Six

I quote from Niven's "Canon for the Man-Kzin Wars" (Scatterbrain, paperback edition p. 293):

There were major "incidents" as well as the four wars... "Six times over several centuries, the kzinti attacked the worlds of men..." I forget where that quote comes from [it's from Ringworld], but at least two "incidents" must have been major ones.

We might interpret this as four "official" wars. In "Flatlander" it's stated "...he'd been in the war in Kzin thirty years back...", placing it in 2615, well after the end of the Fourth War (2505). It may be that what Beowulf Shaeffer (who's narrating the story) calls a "war" is officially called a "major incident", in the manner that the Korean War was, at the time, officially termed a "Police Action".

At any rate, we must assume the annexation of Shasht/Fafnir, and the disarming of the Kzinti (restricting them to police weapons only) was part of the Covenants of Shasht ending the Fourth War... not the Sixth. --Lensman003 17:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Brin

Contrary to what it says in "Background", I don't believe David ever got around to writing a MKW story. Can you cite it? Bigmac31 (talk) 19:52, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

It's possible Brin wrote a story which was rejected; certainly he hasn't had a story published in any MKW story. This does need to be reworded, as anyone reading it would assume Brin had a published story. But I don't know enough to correct the statement.--Lensman003 (talk) 16:28, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Canonicity re: protectors

This is not going in the main section, because it deals with events rather than citable sources. During Ed Larner's collaboration with Larry Niven on the series of books starting with Fleet of Worlds, Larner wanted more detailed information on protectors. Niven referred him to Harrington and gave Larner his email address. The canonicity of protectors being a tnuctip bioweapon may be regarded as highly likely.4.246.3.177 (talk) 20:56, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, Niven revealed in a chat that the next Known Space book from Niven & Lerner, following Juggler of Worlds, will concern the fate of the Pak invasion fleet from the latter part of Protector. It is an intriguing idea that the Pak were created as a Tnuctipun bioweapon; that would certainly explain some things. But it's not very believable that the extremely warlike Pak have not only survived the 1.5 billion years since the end of the Slaver Empire, but have survived without significantly evolving. Yah, their habit of killing offspring who don't "smell right" will cut down on mutations, but their endless warfare using nuclear weapons and bioweapons would cause strong evolutionary pressures. I also don't believe they'd survive for an extended period of time without evolving into something better at cooperating with each other. But that's just my opinion; Niven & Lerner may not agree.--Lensman003 (talk) 16:39, 21 February 2008 (UTC)