Talk:M10 Wolverine

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[edit] Counterweights

It looks like there is some confusion regarding counterweights on the M10. The turret rear had two counterweights on all but the earliest models. The 17-pounder versions *also* had a small counterweight on the gun tube near the muzzle. The back-and-forth editing of the photo caption for the 17-pounder M10 doesn't make much sense. The vehicle has three counterweights - two at the turret rear and one on the tube. DMorpheus 15:46, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that the Achilles photo caption refers to the text on the left, in the Achilles variant description, which mentions the barrel counterweight but not the "standard" turret counterweights (which are mentioned in other section). And it makes sense to concentrate on the features of the specific variant in the description / photo caption of that variant. Besides, the turret counterweights are hardly visible in that photo...

Of course there is no reason here for a lengthy discussion or an "edit war".

By "earliest models" do you mean the T35 prototype ? Bukvoed 06:10, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the caption was referencing the text to the left, but it appears that was not obvious to everyone. I just hate to see an edit war over a misunderstanding/misreading. I am not sure exactly when the counterweights on the rear first appeared; the early M10s in North Africa had very small ones, but I recall reading (somewhere;) that the counterweights were not an original design feature. DMorpheus 14:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I changed the caption once more, hopefully it's better now. Bukvoed 17:33, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Concerning the turret counterweights - you were right. Hunnicutt ("Sherman - A Hisory of the American Medium Tank") mentions that first production veicles didn't have these. Problems with turret balance led initially to some improvised solutions in the field and eventually to the introduction of the standard triangular counterweights. Bukvoed 09:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Paris tank battle

"The M10 also equipped units of the Free French Army; one M10 named "Sirocco", crewed by a regiment composed of French sailors, famously knocked out a German Panther tank on the Place de la Concorde in Paris."

According to Collins and Lapierre in "Is Paris Burning", English Edition, publ 1965, Simon & Schuster, NY, the M-10 of the Régiment Blindé de Fusiliers Marins that engaged the Panther in the Pl de la Concorde was named "Simoun" (p290). The gunner of the "Simoun", Robert Mady, provided the account of the action to the authors. M-10 was at the Pl de l'Etoile under the Arch when it was engaged by the Panther in the Pl de la Concorde. The chef-de-char (tank commander) of the "Simoun" Second-Maître Quiniou estimated the range to the target at 1,500m. Parisian Mady remembered reading long ago that the length of the Avenue de Champs-Elysées from the Arc de Triomphe to the obelisk at the Pl de la Concorde was 1,800m. He sets the correct range on the gun sight and scored a direct hit on the Panther disabling it. The Panther was still able to fight and was only knocked out when it was rammed by a Sherman tank "Douamont" of the 501eme RCC (Régiment de Chars de Combat) entering the Pl de la Concorde from the rue de Rivoli. Ray Y Cheung (talk) 20:04, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Wolverine" name

The "Wolverine" name should be removed from the title and the first paragraph. It does not appear in any official wartime documents related to the M10. The US service version was never assigned a popular name, while the British assigned "Achilles" to both the 3in and 17pdr versions (although it was most commonly referred to simply as 3in SP M10 or 17pdr SP M10). The "Wolverine" name appears to have first come into use with early plastic model kits in the 1970s. There is speculation that it was the planned name for the proposed Canadian-built variant (this would fit the Canadian pattern of naming locally-produced armoured vehicles after Canadian wildlife). Bunwarrior (talk) 03:50, 6 June 2008 (UTC)