Talk:Lucretius

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[edit] Philtre

He claims that Lucretius was driven mad by a love-philtre and that the work was written during the intervals of his insanity, before he killed himself. Philtre links to some band, which I'm guessing is not the meaning used here. Perhaps the meaning of the word should be explained? --Arbiter125

  • Good eye! I changed it for you. --Rednblu 16:12, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I changed "love philter" to "love potion" because (a) this is more readily understandable, (b) "love philter" is a pleonasm, as "philter" alone is already "love potion" (see Potion), and (c) the word "philter" (Gr. φίλτρον, La. philtrum) isn't even in the Latin original, which has "amatorio poculo". --Fabullus 11:35, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Did Lucretius actually free men's minds of superstition?

Titus Lucretius Carus (c. 99 - 55 BC) was a Roman poet and philosopher, whose contribution was to free men's minds of superstition and fear of death.

That sounds like he actually did it too. And impossible task. -FredrikM

---

  • What do you propose as an improvement and replacement sentence? What have scholars said about Lucretius in regard to "freeing men's minds of superstition and fear of death"? What did Lucretius say about "freeing men's minds of superstition and fear of death." ---Rednblu 21:05, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
  • I don't know how the sentence should be revised, but in addition to previous comments, it sounds a little grammatically ambiguous Euphoria 16:04, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Where could we look to get an idea of how to fix what troubles you in that sentence? ---Rednblu | Talk 19:25, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Life/Death of Lucretius; Jerome

I fixed up the balderdash that was placed as Jerome's account of L's live. Here's the Latin, taken from E. J. Kenney's edition of De Rerum Natura III (cited in main article):

Titus Lucretius poeta nascitur, qui postea amatorio poculo in furorem versus, cum aliquot libros per intervalla insaniae conscripsisset quos postea Cicero emendavit, propria se manu interfecit anno aetatis XLIIII.

When I get around to it I'll put in something about Cicero's emending the text. Existent80 July 7, 2005 00:13 (UTC)

[edit] Comment cut to here for discussion

Although the poem De Rerum Natura is Epicurean in nature, the really interesting question to think on is whether Lucretius himself was indeed and Epicurean. This question presents a problem only intended for philosophical thinkers due to the nature of it. And when I speak of the nature of this problem, it is only to point out the complexity of dealing with ancient authors and their respective writings.

I cut the above editorial comment here for discussion. Is there a published scholar who says this? We would need a citation, please. ---Rednblu | Talk 23:37, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

R.E. Latham translated "religio" as "superstition." It clearly seems to me that it should have been translated as "religion." English readers have no idea that Lucretius used "religio" as his original word. This makes a great difference in the understanding of his writing.

Montaigne was fascinated by Lucretius. In his "Apology for Raymond Sebond," Montaigne was supposed to be writing an essay in support of Christianity. But, his frequent quotations from Lucretius tend to convince the reader that Christian dogma is not credible. 64.12.117.8 22:40, 9 September 2005 (UTC)Bruce Partington

[edit] Disambiguation needed?

The poet/philosopher Lucretius is the most famous member of the ancient clan of Lucratii. Shouldn't there be a disambiguation page for other Lucratii? There is also a Lucius Lucratius and a Gnaeus Lucratius. 220.15.200.33 02:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC) MGA

Indeed. In addition to Titus Lucretius Carus there are Gnaeus Lucretius Trio and Lucius Lucretius Trio as you have said. Also Sp. Lucretius Triciptinus, T. Lucretius T. p. Triciptinus, a Lucretius (Triciptinus), L. Lucretius T. f. T. n. Triciptinus, Hostus Lucretius L. f. T. n. Triciptinus, P. Lucretius Hosti f. Triciptinus, L. Lucretius Flavus Triciptinus, Lucretius Vespillo, two by the name of Q. Lucretius Vespillo and of course the famous Lucretia. Most of these can be dealt with as a short note on a disambig. page, but not all. Whogue 09:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Organization

With all due respect, the points mentioned below are all of minor import. The first thing that is needed to make this article work, is organization and structure. First of all the text should be divided into chapters. I propose the following chapters:

  • Introduction
  • Life
  • Work
  • Philosophy
  • Poetry

The second thing would be to divide the existing text over the above headings. I urgently invite others to contribute their views, for I can't do it alone. Fabullus 20:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Nice ideas. I suggest we would select a model Wikipedia page--just for comparison. What is the best Wikipedia page on a philosopher, poet, or poet-philosopher to serve as a model for this page? What is next do you think? Might we move this discussion to the bottom of this page so that the time sequence on this page is preserved? --Just an idea. --Rednblu 06:08, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you! (I have followed your suggestion to move the discussion). Lucretius' case is pretty unique - in a number of ways: he is about the only poet-philosopher who needs to be discussed both as a poet and a philosopher, and he is also about the only poet-philosopher whose complete work survives, and yet we know next to nothing about the man. I am afraid there is no page that can serve as a model all the way. I have noticed, however, that the corresponding German, Dutch, French and Italian articles are much better by way of organization (even though I disagree with some of their factual content). How do you think we could attract other people's interest to this discussion? Fabullus 08:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I think you did the right thing. You looked for editors that had showed an interest in this page. A lot of people have this page on their WatchList. So if you start making improvements, they will watch over what we do here--even if they only correct our typos. What should be done first? --Rednblu 19:59, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I have carried out a major re-organization of the article, without, however, deleting or adding anything of importance. See how you like it. Fabullus 19:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Too bad we don't have more details of this man's life! Wouldn't you like to know how he kept himself writing day after day in such a hostile environment? --Rednblu 20:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I would, but I am very skeptical about all but the most general claims made about his life on the basis of either Jerome's testimony (see also the discussion above) or passages in his own work, which have led some to believe he was a Celtic freedman and others that the was a Campanian farmer. As soon as I find some time I will try to rewrite the section on his life in a more conservative vein. Fabullus 16:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
What balance of sources do you think you will use? --Rednblu 20:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
See for yourself. I have revised the section on Lucretius' life as far as the years of his birth and death are concerned. --Fabullus 09:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

It is nice to have a picture of someone we know so little about! Does anyone know where the picture comes from? --Fabullus 17:03, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree it is interesting, as is, of course, the philosopher himself and his work. Practically the same engraving (though photographed under what is apparently different lighting) is listed in Britannica on-line [1] and subtitled "engraving of a bust" (which might easily compete for the most unhelpful caption ever).. Porfyrios 18:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC)