Talk:Lower Peninsula of Michigan
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Who wrote this? Flint doesn't belong in the thumb, it belongs in the region called "Mid-Michigan". - Chris5369
- I wouldn't really put Flint in mid-Michigan myself, it's too far east and south. Mackensen (talk) 13:12, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
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- That's what it says when I turn on the news, "Mid-Michigan's" Premier News Station. - Chris5369
I think it would be better to refer to the southeastern area as "Southeast Michigan" and not Metro Detroit. Not all of that area is really part of the metropolitan area. I don't think many people consider Monroe County, for instance, as being part of Metro Detroit. Funnyhat 07:48, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- I agree. I think I've made similar comments on Talk:Metro Detroit. older ≠ wiser 12:11, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)
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- Although Flint's TV stations refer to it as being part of "Mid-Michigan," couldn't Flint possibly be considered part of Southeast Michigan? I certainly don't think it is part of the Thumb, nor do I think that Saginaw or Bay City are. To my knowledge, for example, Saginaw schools are not invited to the Thumb Tournament of Champions track meet. Not definitive, I realize, but nothing with regard to this is, and the perceived reality is reality in this circumstance.
- From a Northern Michigan point of view, Flint is 'Downstate.' Not that this contributes anything to the debate... Also, from a NM point of view, Downstate consists of Mid-michigan(Mount Pleasant/Lansing), Kalamazoo/GR, and Metro Detroit. and the Thumb.MPS 8 July 2005 15:51 (UTC)
- While a valid observation, MPS, I don't think that helps this particular debate because we're attempting to make differentiations between what you are saying a northern Michigander sees as "downstate." On the other hand, your comment is valuable (to me, at least) because it reaffirms what is truly Northern Michigan; too many of the people I know in Southeast Michigan consider anything north of Pontiac to be "up north," which to me seems incredibly parochial and arrogant.
- From a Northern Michigan point of view, Flint is 'Downstate.' Not that this contributes anything to the debate... Also, from a NM point of view, Downstate consists of Mid-michigan(Mount Pleasant/Lansing), Kalamazoo/GR, and Metro Detroit. and the Thumb.MPS 8 July 2005 15:51 (UTC)
- Although Flint's TV stations refer to it as being part of "Mid-Michigan," couldn't Flint possibly be considered part of Southeast Michigan? I certainly don't think it is part of the Thumb, nor do I think that Saginaw or Bay City are. To my knowledge, for example, Saginaw schools are not invited to the Thumb Tournament of Champions track meet. Not definitive, I realize, but nothing with regard to this is, and the perceived reality is reality in this circumstance.
As a native of Mount Pleasant, I'd say it's "Central Michigan." It doesn't feel the same way as northern Michigan (Grayling, Petoskey, etc), but it doesn't really fit with the more urban south (Lansing and Flint on down). As I see it, Flint belongs more to the south on account of its industrial and urban qualities. Mackensen (talk) 8 July 2005 21:07 (UTC)
Here, I made this:
Flint really doesn't fit with the Thumb, SE Michigan, or Central Michigan. We feel closer to Saginaw and Lansing than anything else. I'd recommend you call the region I created (and possibly limit to half the areas of Shiawasse, Lapeer, and Saginaw Cos., and all of Genesee Co.) as "Mid-Michigan". It only makes sense.
I only made changes to that map, regarding Flint. I'd suggest that Mt. Pleasant's influence extends slightly more north than on the map, and that Traverse City and East Tawas aren't so similar. - Chris5369 5:55PM (EST) 10/28/05
- We are attempting to describe not create. If that is a recognized region we could use it but we cannot make up a new fact ourselves. Rmhermen 02:47, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
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- We may want to consider adding Tri-Cities of Michigan somehow.MPS 22:43, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Proposed new map
I have created a new map based on the dial pages of [Michiguide] in SVG format. I feel that these regions are the most accurate. Nobody will ever totally agree on what county or city belongs in what region, but this looks like the best compromise. MonkeyWrench32 08:48, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
- I think it's a great idea to break it out by county. You could also use cross hatching for counties that are borderline or that have a sub-region (for example, Huron County, Michigan + Sanilac County, Michigan = "The Thumb" might have diagonal lines but be the same color as Flint Tri-Cities) and you could have a small label or legend on the map that indicates the meaning of the cross-hatch style. MPS 19:02, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that this map is a good compromise. I also think it gets West Michigan right, since that region doesn't generally extend as far north as Ludington or Manistee (such as on the old map). I also think that there should be a mention of the tension zone somewhere on this page. This is a line that roughly extends from Manistee to Bay City and is well-known by geographers across the nation as a distinct geological and vegetational boundary, where the sandy soils and sub-boreal vegetation found in the north meet the southern vegetation in the south. The existence of this boundary effectively determined settlement patterns in the state, and it might be worth mentioning here.triphook 18:00, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
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- I like the map; I'm putting it in. Funnyhat 02:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
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- I uploaded it onto Commons as commons:Image:Lower Peninsula of Michigan map.png. Yassie 01:04, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
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- Nice map. However, it should still reflect "The Thumb" and "Southern Michigan" regions. Ask anyone in Bad Axe if they are in the "Flint/Tri-Cities" area. They will say, no, we are in "The Thumb". Similarly, Coldwater is thought of as being in "Southern Michigan", not "Mid-Michigan".TRosenbaum 04:34, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] Regions of Lower Michigan
I find this conversation very interesting... For the Flint/Tri-Cities area, I would prefer to see Huron, Tuscola, and Sanilac counties renamed (The Thumb) as there is an article on that term. Secondly, Saginaw, Bay and Midland Counties should be regionalized as the Tri-Cities Region. I will be posting my recommendation in image format. -- Jon Talk | Message.
- I agree. In my opinion (not necessarily that of everyone) "The Thumb" is a region of Michigan and should be on the map. What about the "Upper Peninsula" region eh? TRosenbaum 05:28, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Are Regional "Probability" Definitions/Maps In Order?
I don't think agreement on absolute regional boundaries is possible without a strict definition of "region". The concept of region is ambiguous -- it means different things to different people. Have a look at how the ambiguous regional boundary issue was resolved for the "Northwest Ohio" region. The text lists counties that "are or may be" classified as part of the region. The map uses different colors showing counties that are included in the region "always", "most of the time", and "least". The Northwest Ohio region article even says "Just like any other region, there is no universally agreed-upon line for northwestern Ohio, as the entire area is defined differently by the opinions of multiple people." If we did something similar for Michigan, then we could argue about which category or degree each city/county belongs in instead of whether or not a city belongs in a region at all :) The "regional fuzziness" disclaimer might be helpful too -- at least it acknowledges that the regional boundaries are different for different observers. A con is that this would require a different map for each region (to show probability of inclusion in region) TRosenbaum 05:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
