Talk:Louis Agassiz

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[edit] Talk

Proposal of an ice age : "In 1837 Agassiz was the first to ... Prior to this de Saussure"
but de Saussure is linked to Ferdinand de Saussure (November 26, 1857 - February 22, 1913) so there is another De Saussure phe

look like Horace Benedict de Saussure phe 12:07, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Racism

This page is missing completely Agassiz's writings on race -- they should be added in. --Fastfission 04:34, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

-- re polygenism: Agassiz was a special creationist, and as such held views which are difficult to briefly characterize in modern terminology. Thus, he held that all men belonged to one species, but that a single species could be created in more than one place, and so held that the various races of man were "one and the same species capable of ranging over the whole surface of the globe" (quoted in Lurie (1988:256)), but that various races had been created in different biogeographic regions. This account is, of course, fairly nonsensical by modern lights, but provides useful insights into Agassiz's ideas on the origin of biological diversity. Embedded in an account of his views on special creation, a discussion of Agassiz's views on polygenism would be interesting, especially if linked to their social and theological implications, but the mere mention of the word in the introductory paragraph, with no elaboration in the body of the article, seems more misleading than helpful. Lurie does provide such an account of Agassiz's views. 131.210.4.95 28 November 2005

  • I agree that there should be more elaboration in the body. I'm not sure total omission is the path either, though. One article I have found interesting on this point is Stephen Jay Gould, "Flaws in a Victorian Veil", New Scientist 79 (31 Aug. 1978), 632-633. I'm not sure if the account you've provided of A.'s views is completely accurate in my assessment (the piece A. wrote for Knott and Giddon's Types of Mankind does not encourage an idea that he thought all races were the same species, in my recollection), but I'll look over my papers again and try to come up with something fair and accurate. --Fastfission 01:39, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Just as one word cannot do justice to Agassiz's views, my one sentence cannot do so either, and it thus cries out for amplification and even correction. I am not sufficiently a scholar of Agassiz to supply this myself, and would welcome the results of your study. 131.210.4.95 5 December 2005
I'd suggest that Progressive creationism is the closest to the position of Agassiz, but the term "creationist" is anachronistic and should be avoided: as was usual among scientists of his generation he believed in divine creation of species, but accepted that species had changed or at least differed over long periods of time. .....dave souza 08:41, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Add external link

Please add a link to <http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/>, which is editing and publishing all of the correspondence of Charles Darwin. Louis Agassiz was a significant correspondent of Darwin. Eadp 14:24, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Cape of Good Hope race article has an exact copy of the map in this article under Racial Classification section. The small amount text in this other article would fit better here. Corrigann 22:37, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I was just finishing an english paper based on Louis Agassiz and his views on race. I was looking more into his beliefs and came across this article. This article misses a heavy amount of what Agassiz was all about... his work with Samuel Morton and his implications that the white man was the most superior race in the world. He also suggested to a commissioner under Lincoln's presidency that the government do all they can to seperate the white and black man from ever recreating or living as one.

[edit] Agassiz anecdote

The Agassiz statue, Stanford University, California. San Francisco Earthquake 1906
The Agassiz statue, Stanford University, California. San Francisco Earthquake 1906

During the 1906 earthquake at Stanford University a statue of Agassiz fell from a building and embedded itself headfirst in the pavement. A professor is said to have remarked: "I always did appreciate Agassiz more in the abstract than in the concrete. . ."

http://quake06.stanford.edu/centennial/tour/stop3.html --Saxophobia 23:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC)--Saxophobia 23:35, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Not really appropriate for the main page, but have added the picture from Commons --Bwmodular 08:57, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The quip is attributed to David Star Jordon. --Wloveral (talk) 02:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Some to the autorship of the glacial theory

[edit] Is racism notable?

I moved the sentence here:

Louis Agassiz was a hard racist. He developed the theories of racism and of apartheid. (Daniel Ryser, Wochenzeitung Nr. 24, 14. Juni 2007 / Hans Fässler, Reisen in Schwarz-Weiss)

Anybody with better knowledge than me, please, verify if this opinion is verifiable and notable enough to be included! What I'm thinking is that this could be the conclusion of a single person, written up in a non-specialist weekly paper, which is not to be included because of undue weight per WP:NPOV. Anybody know? Awolf002 01:42, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

There's little doubt that he had some racist theories; that was not unusual or particularly weird for scientists of his time. But if we say anything about, it needs to not extrapolate beyond reliable sources, and attribute anything we say via reference to a reliable source. Here are some places to look. Dicklyon 03:57, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
It is certainly notable that such an important scientist supported and developed racist theories, and it should be included like in the German language article. Béka 10:01, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
You can read an interesting study :
Edward Lurie (1954). Louis Agassiz and the Races of Man, Isis, 45 (3) : 227-242. ISSN 0021-1753
--Valérie75 07:50, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
It is a shame that the well-known and well-documented racism of Agassiz is not adequately treated in the article (as it is in the French and in the German Wikipedia; see also the discussion pages). The whole article is a pure hagiography unworthy of Wikipedia. Why not document and admit the dark sides of a scientist? Who wants to hide the truth? Who asks the scandalous question "Is racism notable?" (title of this text)? Let's be honest and show the racism of Agassiz (which he shared with many Americans and Swiss of his times). -- R. L., 18:00, 12 Sep. 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.228.176.203 (talk) 16:01, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

On September 14, 2007, the Swiss Federal Council (Swiss Government) criticized the "racist thinking" of Agassiz. -- R.L., 16:08, 14 September 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.228.176.203 (talk)

Please provide a source, otherwise we'll have to remove that assertion from the article. I agree with you that this "dark side" should be documented, but wikipedia policy requires that we do that with verifiable sources, not hearsay. Dicklyon 23:39, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Okay. On September 12, 2007, the Swiss Government (Federal Council) answered an interpellation by Carlo Sommaruga (member of the Swiss Parliament) about Louis Agassiz. It is interpellation 20073486. You can read it in (in German): http://search.parlament.ch/cv-geschaefte?gesch_id=20073486. The Government stated: "Es besteht kein Zweifel, dass der heutige Bundesrat sein rassistisches Denken verurteilt". My translation: "There is no doubt that the actual Swiss Government condemns his racist thinking." -- R.L., 10:58, 16 September 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.228.176.203 (talk)

Many sources on Agassiz's racism exist: Stephen Jay Gould, "Flaws in a Victorian Veil," Chapter 16 in The Panda's Thumb, is a very accessible one. There are far more academic ones as well; basically any work on ethnology before Darwin discusses him extensively. Practically any book about Agassiz will feature some discussion of it. --24.147.86.187 14:33, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Broken Link removed

Ryz (talk) 21:52, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nationality

He's called Swiss-American in the intro and certainly spent a lot of his life in the US, but did he ever take American citizenship or self-identify as American? If not, then it's not correct to call him Swiss-American - he was simply a Swiss person who settled in America. Also, the article is written with a mix of Commonwealth English spellings and American English ones. It should be one or the other, not a mix. 86.148.49.46 (talk) 13:48, 10 June 2008 (UTC)