Talk:Louis-Antoine, Duke of Angoulême
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How legal was his 20 minute reign? If it was then should he be under Louis XIX of France? Timrollpickering 11:55, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- "Legitimist" fantasies, imagined long afterwards out of dreaming over a genealogical tree by someone who refers to "La Madame de France," wouldn't you say? "The duc d'Angoulême set aside any claims he might have had on the occasion." That's the ordinary assessment, though I won't intrude into this current entry. The occasion, on August 2, 1830, was well-recorded at the time in memoirs. A contemporary quote would be an unlikely surprise, however, forcing me to kow-tow in apology upon the Savonnerie. --Wetman 08:26, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Hi, On this page the duc de Bordeaux is also referred to the comte de Chambord very close together, and it might make someone not familiar with the history think that they are two seperate people. Should I try to clarify this myself or do I just note this and then someone elmse changes this? Oh I should probably read the instructions. Sorry.
- Louis XVII is listed as such, even though he was never king. This guy was technically king if only for 20 minutes, so he deserves a number too. --dllu \17:02, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Maybe it should be changed to Louis-Antoine, Dauphin of France-Croix129
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[edit] Requested move
- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Louis-Antoine, Duke of Angoulême → Louis XIX of France and Henri, comte de Chambord → Henry V of France - (Discuss) — even only for a very short time, they were French kings in fact, so there's no reason not to use their regnal names as titles of their articles. - Louis88 16:30, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Survey
- Strongly oppose We have no business deciding whether they were kings in fact, which happens to be strongly controversial. (Even from the legitimist PoV, neither was crowned; and the question of when the Bourbons ceased to be the government is infinitely debateable.) We should merely call them what English does, which is the Duke of Angoulême and Count of Chamfort (comte is artificial). Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
- I don't see how crowning comes into it - Louis XVIII was never crowned, either, and all kings were clearly kings before their crowning, as well. As to "Comte" being artificial, there are 13,000 English google hits for "Comte de Chambord" and only 1000 for "Count of Chambord", once wikipedia results are excluded. There's only 26 Google Scholar hits for "Count of Chambord", as opposed to 200 for "Comte de Chambord" (although this may include some foreign language journals, I don't see any in the early hit results.) In English French title are often left untranslated, and in this particular instance, it seems to be left untranslated the majority of the time. john k 17:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
- Well, if you checked, I won't insist on Count. I suppose Charles VII, whom I was thinking of, is a special case. That would be another move request anyway. The only point about Louis XVII is that he is so called (and there is less dispute about this because the numbering was supported by a later actual government of France; Louis XIX never was.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
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- Louis XVIII, was never crowned. The one who reigned from 1814-1824. I agree about Louis XVII - he's called that. Angoulême is rarely called Louis XIX. john k 18:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
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- Well, if you checked, I won't insist on Count. I suppose Charles VII, whom I was thinking of, is a special case. That would be another move request anyway. The only point about Louis XVII is that he is so called (and there is less dispute about this because the numbering was supported by a later actual government of France; Louis XIX never was.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
- I don't see how crowning comes into it - Louis XVIII was never crowned, either, and all kings were clearly kings before their crowning, as well. As to "Comte" being artificial, there are 13,000 English google hits for "Comte de Chambord" and only 1000 for "Count of Chambord", once wikipedia results are excluded. There's only 26 Google Scholar hits for "Count of Chambord", as opposed to 200 for "Comte de Chambord" (although this may include some foreign language journals, I don't see any in the early hit results.) In English French title are often left untranslated, and in this particular instance, it seems to be left untranslated the majority of the time. john k 17:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose, as PMA says, it is controversial whether they were kings in fact, and they are, at any rate, better known by their other titles - Louis for his pre-1824 title of "Duke of Angouleme" (which he was known by for his first 45 years or so), Henri for his post-1830 title of "Comte de Chambord.". john k 17:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
- Oppose, while my preference is to extend them their regnal names and ordinals, it is just that, my preference. Majority usage is for the ducal and comital titles. Charles 18:06, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 17:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] King of France??
Err, if I recall correctly, historians don't recognize Louis' twenty minute reign. GoodDay (talk) 01:25, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Hideous lead sentence
The article begins as follows:
- Louis-Antoine of Artois [1], Dauphin of Viennois and Duke of Angoulême (Louis XIX, disputedly King of France and Navarre for twenty minutes in 1830 and Legitimist Pretender to the throne from 1836 to 1844) (August 6, 1775 – June 3, 1844) was the eldest son of King Louis XVI of France's youngest brother, the Comte d'Artois, and his wife, Marie-Thérèse de Savoie.
As someone somewhere once said, "that sentence should be taken out and shot"! --207.176.159.90 (talk) 06:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
- Instead of passing what you perceive to be a fault, how about you do something about it? It's easy to edit, in fact I would encourage you to register to make such changes in the future easier to do and track. Charles 18:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
