Talk:Los Angeles Kings

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Los Angeles Kings article.
Article policies
Archive

Talk Page Archive
Archive 1 - 11/05/07

Contents

[edit] Going for GA?

OK...should we go for Good Article status? What do you think needs to be done to get this article up to that standard? Gmatsuda 05:36, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

The following was on one of the archived Wikiproject talk pages...
At first glance, it needs organization into subheadings. Right now, it has massive sections under Level 2 headings whose names mean nothing to non-Kings fans. --Mus Musculus 21:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Take a look at New Jersey Devils. The posters there have done an excellent job bringing that one up to FA status. It is something I would like to do with Calgary Flames as well at some point. Probably after I complete my Flames season articles.
Two needs that stand out clearly for the Los Angeles Kings article are the need for a more comprehensive lead section, and better fair use descriptions for the logos included. A couple of images of players or Kings games would help as well, I would think. Resolute 23:31, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
If I asked the Kings Communications Department for player photos (they might provide them; game photos might be difficult to obtain because nowadays, they all come from Getty Images league-wide and there is a cost involved, most of the time), what would I need to obtain from them in order to prove that I got permission to use them here? Gmatsuda 08:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyone got any other ideas? Gmatsuda 05:46, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

The 'Retried Numbers' and 'Hall of Fame' sections need to be combined under 'Honored Members' and done in pros style. The New Jersey Devils example, is prefer by WPTP. GoodDay 16:58, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

OK...more suggestions/ideas? Gmatsuda 08:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Should have a Jersey "section", instead of logos spread throughout. Pictures needed too. Is the mascot mentioned? Love each other, or perish. ~Auden 01:00, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Go for GA and FA. I think it would be cool. In response to Auden, the wikipolice get a little cranky about images that don't meet a whole host of standards. If someone can obtain permission from the Kings for certain images, let's do it. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 23:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I just finished getting Manzanar promoted to GA and now FA. I was concentrating on that. Eventually, I'll get the energy and inspiration to work on this article.

I should be able to get some photos from the Kings. But once again, the question is: what would I need to obtain from them in order to prove that I got permission to use them here? And now that I think more about that, how do I make that available here? Would I have to scan what they give me into a PDF and add it to the page for the image(s) in question? -- Gmatsuda 23:21, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Images must be free for use on wikipedia. I know that the Kings have their own photographer and any image provided by them are under copyright. Best way to get an image here is to take one yourself or ask someone to who has images to release them in to the public domain. --Krm500 00:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

I understand all that. But...if I can get photos from the Kings and permission to use them, they would be great for inclusion. So the leaves the same questions regarding what we'd need to have to prove that they have granted permission to use whatever photos they provide. -- Gmatsuda 00:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reverting my edits

In the Current Roster section I changed Patick O'Sullivan's birthplace from Winston-Salem, NC to Toronto. And I changed Brady Murray's flag from Canadian to American because he played for the USA at the WJC. However, people keep reverting these edits, why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Canuck85 (talk • contribs) 05:57, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

There is some conflicting information about O'Sullivan's place of birth. His Wikipedia article says he was born in Toronto, but raised in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. However, his NHL bio, the 2006-07 Kings Media Guide and the 2006-07 NHL Guide and Record Book state that he was born in Winston-Salem. As such, for the time being, I think we need to go with the official publications until we get something conclusive that contradicts them. As for Murray, he was born in Brandon, Manitoba, and that is found in the 2006-07 Kings Media Guide as well. The flag represents country of birth, not what national team they play for, from what I understand.
I'll have my copy of the 2007-08 Los Angeles Kings Media Guide and a copy of the 2007-08 NHL Guide and Record Book next week after the Kings (and their Communications staff) are back home from London, so I can check those sources to see if the information has changed. -- Gmatsuda 08:46, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
What's the word on Paddy? I was talking to him at Tip-a-king last year, and I swear he said he was born in Winston-Salem. I think his parents are Canadians, living there as ex-pats. But my son was annoying me to go to see Kopitar, so I don't remember the whole conversation. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 18:01, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
For some reason, my media guide hasn't arrived yet. I had to miss the home opener due to a previous commitment, so I had the Communications staff mail it to me. Oh well. As soon as I get the media guide, either today or tomorrow, or at the next home game (Friday), I'll check it to see if the birthplace has changed. -- Gmatsuda 18:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
The 2007-08 Los Angeles Kings Media Guide states that O'Sullivan's birthplace is Winston-Salem, North Carolina. -- Gmatsuda 04:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
We should probably go with the official publications, as you said, for now. But just to mention it, in the hockey articles we put the national flag for the country whose national team they play for, not where they are from...though they may be one and the same, ofcourse. So for Murray, regardless of where he was born, if he plays for America, an American flag should be next to his name. That is unless WP:HOCKEY policy has changed in that regard since I was last active sometime in June. BsroiaadnLet's Go Devils! 04:45, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I was just handed my copy of the National Hockey League Official Guide & Record Book 2008, and it too lists O'Sullivan's birthplace as Winston-Salem, North Carolina. -- Gmatsuda 01:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Unusual case for Sens' player Nick Foligno. Born in the US to Canadian dad, grew up in Canada, though has played for US national junior program, but played major junior in Canada (for his dad who was coach). Has dual citizenship even. He played for USA so we've listed him with the US flag, although he's spent most of his life in Canada. The policy is definitely to go with national team affiliation. Alaney2k 00:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Robitaille footnote

Could somebody fixed the captaincy footnote - Gretzky resumed his role as captain in January 1993 (upon returning from injury). Gretz wasn't renamed captain (as he was never stripped of the captaincy), he was still captain during injury. GoodDay 18:54, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Not sure that's accurate, and there's no publication that I know of that confirms either possibility. That said, it's really small potatoes, so I don't really think we need to worry about it. -- Gmatsuda 20:06, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Ah, come on - afterall, I've given up the interim thing. Plus, we've no sources saying Gretz was stripped of the captaincy, during his injury status. GoodDay 20:11, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
LOL...seriously speaking, we really don't know what the situation was. I still don't think it's something we need to worry about. -- Gmatsuda 20:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I had to try something (even humour), but I'll drop the request. GoodDay 20:41, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Hey...no worries...it's all good. :-) No offense...I just don't see that this is important enough to worry about. -- Gmatsuda 21:51, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Should we not note Robitaille's captaincy for his last game? I know he wore the C for that game and I don't see it listed, or is it because it wasn't officially noted by any of the publications? Shootmaster 44 00:57, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
My feeling would be no, since it was only for one game (his second to last game) and he is not credited for it in any official publications (2007-08 Los Angeles Kings Media Guide or the 2008 NHL Official Guide and Record Book). -- Gmatsuda 01:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Archived older messages

FYI: I've created the first archive for this talk page. -- Gmatsuda 07:48, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Working on rewrite

I'm starting work on rewriting this article, getting it ready for GA review. I started with the lead, and I'll gradually work on the rest. -- Gmatsuda 07:10, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Worked on the Forum Blue and Gold section. Hopefully, I'm on the right track. -- Gmatsuda 10:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I haven't had to time to work on this lately, but I haven't forgotten about it... -- Gmatsuda (talk) 02:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jerseys

I've added the current Kings' jerseys, but they've been reverted out of the article. Possibly this is a topic for discussion? Alaney2k 21:34, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the problem is the source of the photo. Where did you get it and did the owner grant permission to use it? -- Gmatsuda 22:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
The problem remains that you do not have owner's permission to post those photos. I have seen them before, and either the photographer or the LA Kings own that image. Please see Wikipedia:Non-free content. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 22:15, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Maybe I am incorrect in my interpretation, but the fair use of logos in low resolution applies here, no? What I did was use the jersey illustrations from shop.nhl.com, merged the two home and away images, without changes, which are released to the public to identify products, and contain the logo. I'll look up your reference, certainly. Alaney2k 22:23, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
It's not that simple. Images from the NHL's web site are generally not usable, AFAIK. -- Gmatsuda 22:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I believe they are usable for commentary purposes, as mentioned on Wikipedia:Non-free content. In this case, the jersey has changed and the image illustrates this. I don't work for the NHL and I am not trying to push the jersey sales. Alaney2k 22:28, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Another example are the player portraits on the NHLPA's site. One could claim that using them here is OK under fair use. However, I believe the NHLPA complained and they are no longer used. You can't just claim fair use and then use it. You have to be able to prove that the way you're using the photo constitutes fair use and that there is no public domain alternative. -- Gmatsuda 22:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
After reading Wikipedia:Non-free content, I don't see anything in there that says it's OK to use the photo in question. -- Gmatsuda 22:34, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
You guys need to fix up the rationale on the Kings logo image. The template is unfilled. I guess the bots don't check all the fields. You'll need to fix that up for GA status of the article. I didn't look at the rest of the images. I'll leave my uploaded image alone and the image will get deleted and I'll leave it at that. Alaney2k 22:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Alaney, I've seen wars over images too much on here. It's not worth it. Unless there are explicit permissions to use them, we shouldn't. The NHL owns those images, and if you can convince them to allow use on this article, then that would be great. However, merging two pictures is probably not going to fly.OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 22:49, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I've not been editing that long, I was unaware of these controversies. I'm not interested in warring over it! I brought it up for discussion because at first the adds were just removed, so I was curious why. Good luck with your GA process. I'm trying to get Ottawa Senators to GA level myself. I wouldn't want to mess up your review. Alaney2k 23:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I should also mention that we have a GA review on the Talk for Ottawa Senators. We didn't pass. Some of the points might be helpful here too? E.g. one sentence paragraphs should be merged into larger paragraphs? Alaney2k 23:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I'm slowly working on that...see the section above... -- Gmatsuda 23:27, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] All-Time team

I was at this game, covering it for thw two web sites I write for, so I was there for the naming of the Kings' All-Time team. In fact, if I recall, I got to vote on that (media other than the local beat writers generally don't get to vote on stuff like the three stars). However, i apparently didn't write a story that included that information, so I can't use that as a reference, and I can't find anything on Google. Anyone got something we can cite as a reference? If no one has anything, I guess I could ask the Kings... -- Gmatsuda (talk) 02:55, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Danny Taylor

I noticed that every time I place Danny Taylor on the Kings' roster, his name is changed to Daniel Taylor. I realize this is a small issue, but I'm curious why that is? According to the ECHL transactions he goes by Danny not Daniel. I missed the game the other night when he played for LA, but as far as I can tell his name is Danny. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 05:03, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

According to the Kings and the Monarchs, his name is Daniel. He is listed in both media guides as Daniel. And when I interviewed him after Thursday's game, I asked what he prefers. He prefers Daniel. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 08:57, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I guess that makes sense. I wonder where the whole Danny business in the ECHL came from? Shootmaster 44 (talk) 01:40, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Not sure, but I just read an article in the Reading Eagle that refers to him as "Danny." But since both the Kings and Monarchs media guides have him listed as "Daniel," that's really what we should go by. -- Gmatsuda (talk) 04:49, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Alright, then I will make the appropriate changes to the Monarchs and Royals pages. Shootmaster 44 (talk) 01:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)