Talk:Longest English sentence
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This article was nominated for deletion on 23 May 2008. The result of the discussion was keep. |
- Perhaps it would be nice to show what the Guinness Book of World Records claims to be the longest sentence in English. AltMazter
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- I saw a claim that it was over 20 pages long. Coincedentally I found this snippet from www: "was the only person to know that the longest sentence in English literature was spoken by Molly Bloom, a character in Ulysses by James Joyce. This sentence is so long that in the original publication of the work, it extended for over forty pages, finally concluding with an affirmative "yes!" (Incidentally, this edition, which was published by Sylvia Beach of Shakespeare & Co. fame, is believed to contain over five thousand typographical errors.)" Another "longest sentence"? Better not add either :) AltMazter
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- I don't have the Guinness Book myself, and this particular claim was not on their web page, so I couldn't add it. The claim of such a sentence from Ulysses seems likely wrong simply because Joyce was not constrained by usual rules of punctuation and grammar. Thus, while Ulyssses is English, it is debatable whether it contains many sentences at all.
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- Either way though, since the point I was making in the article was that there can, in principle, be no longest sentence I don't see the point of adding "pretenders to the crown". But, if anyone wants to add, I will have no objections. vanden 14:41, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)
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- Well, I have read neither nor have a Guinness Book myself either, but if it were of a reasonable lenght it could've been added. If it is so-many pages long I don't think it would have any value at all, since this claimed sentence would be a senseless clutter of words. I do stand behind the point made in the article. AltMazter
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Link does not work any more
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- I read somewhere that the longest was actually in Les Miserable.
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[edit] Infinitely long sentences can be made
For example: Who polices the police? The police police. Who polices the police police? The police police police. Who polices the police police police? The police police police police.
This process can be repeated ad infinitum. Eventually you get an absurdly long sentence like "Who polices the police police police police police police police police police police police police police police police police police police police police police..."? This can also be done in other ways, such as:
"I had a friend who had a friend who had a friend who had a friend who had a friend who had a friend who had a friend..."
I would have blanked the page and replaced it with this stuff, but I wanted to get some input first.
Later edit: oops I didn't read the whole article, it says this. But I think this stuff should be first (the article is not "longest published english sentence")
[edit] Infinitely long sentences are a matter of opinion
Appealing to the "rules of English grammar" to justify the assertion that there is no longest sentence in English relies on an acceptance that the English language is something that is produced by the application of rules. While this may be a foundational assumption of some linguistic theories, it isn't shared by everyone. Notably, when teaching linguistics to undergraduates, the idea that sentences can be infinitely long is often resisted: they understand the "rules" they are being shown and why they produce infinitely long sentences, but they reject the idea that all "sentences" produced by the application of these rules are sentences of English.
Of course, there can be no proof that English sentences can or cannot be infinitely long, only differences in opinion as to (eg) whether recursive generative grammar type rules actually produce the sentences of English (and only the sentences of English). One could argue that "Who polices the {police * 10000000}" is a sentence on the basis of the chain of reasoning given above, or one could make some inconceivability claim to deny that it is a sentence of English. These arguments would reflect different opinions about what makes something a sentence of English. The article should reflect these differences in opinion Yekwah 11:38, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- Given that mainstream linguistics fundamentally views grammatical rules as recursive, evidence to the contrary would require reputable published material to be cited as an opposing source. There are different views as to what constitutes a sentence of English: only one set of these views, however, could claim to be linguistically well-informed. Slac speak up! 11:44, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Dubious claim about regular grammars and natural language
Because English grammar is extensible in this manner, it is mathematically provable to not be a regular language with a finite grammar, a key concept in theoretical computer science.[1]
This quote, removed from the main page, is either meaningless or incorrect. A regular language can produce a countably infinite set of expressions that are unbounded in length, just like natural language. As far as how long an expression can be that is produced by a class of languages, there is no difference between a regular language and a natural language. — λ (talk) 19:59, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
