Talk:Lock picking

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[edit] Legal Status

This entire section is bogus and has no sources. Possession of a lockpick illegal in the U.S.? Well, then how do locksmiths legally possess them? Locksmithing doesn't require a license or background check. You can even get into it as a profession through home study correspondence courses.

Also, crowbars aren't illegal in the U.S.! You can buy a crow bar at any hardware store. You can even buy them at Home Depot online! Just do a search and see! Crowbars are used for removing nails and opening windows. Nearly all household hammers include a mini crowbar on the opposite end of their head.

Possession of crowbars can be considered burglary tools just as much as a screwdriver or a hammer. All one needs to do is find the intent of the person who is carrying them. IE, late at night dressed in dark clothing, suspect has prior history of burglary.

Possession of lockpick sets in California is restricted to Public Safety Persons and Locksmiths. Locksmiths have a license to possess lickpick sets. <<-- Untrue. Possesion in California is completely legal, and I have corrected that section with relevant cites to the penal code. Cosmos7 07:23, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The European Union part seems to be bugus too. First, all these things are NOT regulated on the Union level but by the individual Member Countries. Tipically, NOT the OWNER but the USER holds all criminal responsibility, when the owner MAY be involved in jurisdiction as an accomplice or witness. I made the correction. User:guest 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] US State Laws

Oregon law ORS 164.125 states that if you possess a "burglary tool" or "theft device" with intent to commit forcible entry it is a class A misdemeanor. "Burglary tools" includes lockpicks and crowbars as they are "adapted or designed for committing or facilitating a forcible entry". Simple possession is not a crime, you must have intent to commit a crime.

Arizona has a similar law, ARS as does Texas Texas Penal Code Title 4, 16.01.

I have not looked into other states. --Schwern 12:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Utah also has a similar law Utah Criminal Code Title 76 Chapter 06 Section 205 Possession is not a crime, you must have an intent to commit a crime.

[edit] Bump Keys

Bumps keys is a larg security issue because of its simplicity and its high functionality, wich open certain type of locks without damaging them. The Open Organisation of Lockpickers (TOOOL) puplished a descriptive Paper on it already in 2005 (http://www.toool.nl/bumping.pdf) and additionally talks and videos on this specific technique to prevent Security through obscurity, also describing locks that are "Bump Proof" and why.

With help of a video on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WexoP5ZDWgg) and similar sites (newsweek, digg, ...) this Topic has become quite popular in these days and may have a effect finnaly in the puplic. Even when this is known for years by the industry. RobertSt 19:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Here is an article from ALOA: Bumpkeys.PDF. Dan D. Ric 21:57, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

To quote a small section: "Initially the individuals who promoted this information to the press may have been making what ALOA perceives as a mis-guided attempt at consumer awareness. They gave the impression that opening locks by Key Bumping was a wide-spread problem. It certainly has not been a method used by most burglars for many reasons. However, now that this method of opening some locks has become a popular theme, the most probable effect will be to stimulate the interest of would-be burglars to attempt to Bump Open locks!" Bumpkeys.PDF. Dan D. Ric 22:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

-Problems with bumping: To successfully bump a lock, you need to have a key that will fit the lock. With so many key designs out there, a person using bumping will need to have thousands of specially modified "bump keys." It is quite easy to make locks unbumpable. If you put a ball bearing on the top of each pin, the ball bearing absorbs the shock and keeps the pins from staying at the sheer line. Companies like Medeco have already caught onto putting objects such as these into their locks to prevent this kind of thing. Finally, it damages the lock. The impact can dent the keyway, making it impossible to get the real key back in. This leaves a trace, making the problem of insurance companies not paying for "no traces of burglary."

They were also featured on local news stations where they would inadvertantly teach you how to use, make, and buy bump keys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.9.251 (talk) 23:21, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lock bypassing

This is, strictly speaking, a lock bypass method, not a lock picking method. We should move it to an article on jimmying, if there ever is one. jdb ❋ (talk) 15:22, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yes, there are many ways to open locks that aren't technically picking. Personally, I think we might as well keep the page as-is for now (with disclaimers as necessary), since the current text is neither large nor complete. Wyvern 12:15, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If anything, I feel that this article ought to be merged with the article that parented it (locksmithing) as it is for the most part a locksmithing practice... The locksport community (see toool.nl) generally does not concern itself with bypassing methods, while the locksmithing trade often practices it as a means to non-destructively open a lock. Wyvern makes a good point about the text being incomplete, but the trade industry (locksmiths) are generally not apt to share bypassing methods... I feel that a merge is best because it would fit the brevity of the article best, while not leaving incentive for someone to add how-too's to it (which could result in theft) --Davou 04:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Car locks

Car locks can sometimes be opened by slipping a metal ruler that has had its end cut into a hook shape (a slim Jim), down the front of a car window (in between the rubber). The ruler is manipulated until the lock cable is caught on the hook. Pulling the cable up will open the door. On modern cars, however, this technique could easily damage the electrical wiring that controls the door locks or windows, so "slim jims" are usually inserted from the passenger side, to avoid the large amounts of wiring that are installed on the driver's door.

[edit] Tools

Why doesn't the lockpicking page have a section on lockpicks and how they are used? Is it just that nobody's gotten around to writing it up yet, or is there some objection to being more detailed? I'm sure there are people on Wiki more experienced than myself in this, but I could take a shot at a light overview. Wyvern 12:15, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Go for it. A light overview can always be edited later to fill in more detail. I can help with any diagrams if you like. Theresa Knott (ask the rotten) 12:48, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Added a section on tools still plenty of room for improvement though --67.76.182.11 04:38, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Columbia?

Does this mean Washington, D.C.? If it does, we should link to the statute in question. (And who refers to the nation's capital as "Columbia"? Everyone I know calls it "Washington", "D.C.", or "The District", though the latter is used only by insufferables.) jdb ❋ (talk) 21:24, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Im pretty sure its refering to D.C., but i left it be since i am unsure
Found a resource that does say "District of Columbia" on it as to the place it is illegal at, here, on question three where it asks if it's legal to carry lock picks. I'm going to edit the article to reflect that, and post the resource. Zeke
Seems to be missing from the article at this point? D.C is definitely a place where mere possession of picks is illegal. Take a look here: http://www.aloa.org/legislation/Leg_Map/ALOA_Map.htm

70.22.199.245 04:46, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

As far as i understood, the torque wrench applies torque to the cilinder as if it was a key ( meaning, try to rotate clockwise ) however, this is not described in the text, nor in the diagram. If I am indeed right, I can add another view to make the diagram clear ( and i suggest tha someone such do it in the text )

[edit] Category

Is this really considered a Cat:security exploits page? It's not about computers. Should the category be split? Does it matter? --unforgettableid | talk to me 21:47, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tone

"Then BAM! you will put the key into the lock and then the lock will open! It is an absolutly fantastic and fun skill to have, ecspecially if you are in a university setting."

This bit needs rephrasing, the tone is very unencyclopaedic. Shinobu 13:10, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Additionally, much of the article is written in the second person. Tagged for cleanup. --J Morgan(talk) 14:29, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
The person that wrote the BAM bit contributed two major sections, both of which could use some heavy copy editing. Here are the diffs of the edits on the Pin Tumbler Locks and Key Impressioning sections. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lock_picking&diff=66099776&oldid=65245650 -- Phloopy 16:19, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, that was me. Sorry about that - I get super carried away when I talk about locksmithing. I am an avid enthusiast (and a very skilled one at that). Thanks for cleaning up after my mess. --Yoyoceramic 04:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Improvements

Although i am generally impressed with the quality of Wikipedias pages, i cannot unfortunatly say the same about this one - the article is written in the same vein as the majority of most published material on the topic, containing some gross errors that i do not believe to be intentional and being heavily biased towards American terminolgy. Unfortunatly this disenfranchises a large section of your readership from comprehending the article. As a lecturer in lock picking and locksmithing in both the government and public sector, i would be happy to contribute to this article, being of the mind that such information is essential for informed decision and to promote greater ingenuity on the part of manufacturers. Unfortunately, as this is the first time i have entered this site, i have no idea how to proceed further. Should anyone be interested in my proposition, i would appreciate your help.Jwsa 16:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Then I suggest you learn how to edit. http://www.mediawiki.com and the Firefox extension for wikipedia might be a good start. --Yoyoceramic 04:50, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Laws in Downunder

Anyone mind telling me the laws about this in australia. Searched 2 legal sites and came up with zip.

owning or possessing lockpicking tools is legal is aus. but you can't use them for burglary (duh), sell them or buy them. so basically, if you are dedicated enough to make your own set, you can become a locksmith. --Carbonrodney 14:04, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Notice of import

A copy of this article was moved to wikibooks using the Import tool (with all revisions). If this article was marked for copy to wikibooks or as containing how-to sections, it can now be safely rewritten.

If contributors are interested in expanding on the practical information that was in this article, please do so on the wikibooks side. For pointers on writing wikibooks, see Wikibooks:Wikibooks for Wikipedians. --SB_Johnny|talk|books 16:57, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

A few weeks ago I added a link to our lock picking resource page at external links, [spam removed] EZ Picking Forum. I noticed it was removed and I was wondering why? My resource consists of a blog and forum, and is considered a useful independent voice of the locksport community. My question is do you not feel it was a worthy eternal link? We provide additional links to related sites. I only seek to understand the guidelines here and contribute honestly and fairly.

Wikipedia is not a repository of links — web forums, above most others, run contrary to our Wikipedia:External links guideline and was likely removed for that specific reason. If you are interested in promoting your website, please consider another service such as the dmoz open directory or the del.icio.us social bookmarking tool. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 20:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I for one was very sad to see the [spam removed] link removed. It is a extremely useful site. I even replaced the link a few times myself but the ...clown... thought it was my site so removed it. We discussed the problem by email, where I asked the obvious questions and the ...clown... replied with Off Topic cut and paste answers. It is hard to get him to remove the mask for a moment, and sadly he is sitting on this site watching every move. Why would an admin on a site like this go to such great lengths to look stupid?

Interesting, EZ Picking Forum link was removed, which is a independent locksport community, which is very much about lock picking, yet you allow video links from youtube, and other lesser web sites. I was merely trying to contribute some *real* relevant content that would benefit visitors here in their search for information on lock picking. If my aim was to spam I could think of 100 better ways, but that was not my aim. I hope another administrator decides to reconsider placing my link http://ezpic king.com/forum back on external links because IMHO I honestly believe it is a real contribution here.

(moved from "picture" section): Why are people deleting links to forums like LPN, EZP and LP101 that are useful to all? (unsigned)

Why are links to TOLG - The Open Locksport Guide wiki - being removed, which again are useful to all? (unsigned)

I'd imagine because wikipedia is supposed to be an online encyclopedia, not a links database, unless the sites have some importance other than "useful" they shouldn't really be here. on the other hand, a reference to the document formerly known as "the MIT guide to lockpicking" should perhaps be mentioned as it has influenced the spread of lockpicking as a hoby in the last 15 years. Whitehatnetizen 03:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

(end of moved text)

In defence of the lock wiki (without having seen it), it should be noted that wikis for things like star trek and homestarrunner are linked to in their respective articles. Presumably, because they have a much richer level of detail than possible (or necessary) on Wikipedia. --RealGrouchy 03:39, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia vs. Wikibooks

A lot of this article is written as an instruction guide for lock picking. While thorough and interesting, that type of information is not really fit for an encyclopedia. I would encourage enthusiasts of this topic to migrate the instructional information to Wikibooks, and place a link to it on the Wikipedia page. --RealGrouchy 15:54, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What are pick guns?

"Pick gun" redirects to this page, and the term appears offhand once, but there is no explanation of what it is (the whole reason I ended up on this article). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.92.16 (talk) 08:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

A pick gun is a mechanism that has a metal rod or "pick", a trigger and a handle. What it does is a rod is connected inside the gun, and when the trigger is pulled, the rod shifts and vibrates to set the pins above the shear line. Sometimes the results are instantaneous and open the lock in one trigger pull but usually take 2-3 pulls to set the pins. You need a license by the State of Utah to have these in Utah of course. I am not aware of other state laws regarding pick guns, but if you get caught in Utah with one and not being registered to it, you can face a prison sentence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.9.251 (talk) 23:18, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, lock-picking hobbyists consider the pick guns as "total buzz-killers" because the gun itself takes the puzzle-solving element of lock-picking out of the equation. And I agree. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.9.251 (talk) 23:29, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Zealand lockpick possession laws

Does anyone think it's odd that not only does it not mention a fine in the link provided to the statute concerning possession of lock picking tools but that the fine is said to be 2000 "pounds"? New Zealand converted to dollars in 1967 THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IMMEDIATELY!!!

[edit] Edit Lock?

I don't see any padlocks signs on this article.

Why is the edit option been disabled for this article? Why the missing padlock?

88.105.76.145 (talk) 17:04, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Added the lock.--Hu12 (talk) 17:18, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED IMMEDIATELY!!!

[edit] Key impressioning

It's not really "lock picking", it's another separate thing. Ideally, there would be a separate article for it... opinions? Areldyb (talk - sign) 19:02, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, key impressioning is different from picking. Although it may be considered lock hacking. It should be referenced, but I don't think it should be gone into with detail. 138 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:39, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Zealand

New Zealand uses pounds? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.151.154 (talk) 11:13, 25 March 2008 (UTC)