User talk:Lmmnhn
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[edit] Great Song/Great Tang/etc.
Please stop changing the dynasty names in these articles; the names were NOT "Great Song" and "Great Tang"-- rather than debate this I think it's convincing enough to go look at the corresponding articles on the Chinese wikipedia, both of which are FA's and do not use these terms anywhere. The first dynasty that did use this term was Yuan. siafu 00:39, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- What is the evidence?--Lmmnhn 02:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
-
- You mean ASIDE from the featured articles on the Chinese wikipedia? Since the burden of proof is on you anyway, why don't you tell me what the evidence is? siafu 02:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E5%AE%8B%E5%AE%A3%E5%92%8C%E9%81%97%E4%BA%8B 大宋宣和遺事, http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E5%AE%8B%E9%92%A6%E5%AE%97&variant=zh-hk 中國大宋皇帝, no country would have their native name call X朝 (X dynasty). "Dynasty" is the term that is used to desribe a period by the historian.--Lmmnhn 03:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps you should read the articles you are citing; 大宋宣和遺事 is the name of a novel, not a dynasty. 中國大宋皇帝 means the "Great Chinese Song Emperor", though it doesn't sound so hamfisted in Chinese. Neither indicates that the dynasty was called "Great Song". siafu 03:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- I don't know if you speak Chinese or not, but I am a native Chinese speaker. It is the name of a novel, but there is the country name 大宋 in the title, and 中國大宋皇帝 means "Great Song Emperor of China", so they both indicates that the dynasty was called "Great Song". Even if the native name of the country is not "Great Song" or "Song", doesn't mean that it should be "The Song Dynasty"--Lmmnhn 03:36, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- If you're trying to tell me that "Dynasty" is a poor translation for 朝, that's a rather different matter, but if you're trying to say that "大宋" was the common or even formal name for the "state" that existed in China between 960 and 1279, I'm afraid I have to disagree and you'll have to provide an actual source that indicates that. And yes, I do speak Chinese, though not as well as I used to. siafu 03:57, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- If you don't mind, I think "Song" will be a compromise between "Great Song" and "The Song Dynasty", and Tang as well.--Lmmnhn 04:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Well, there's not just me to deal with on this one. Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Use common names indicates that the article must be named "Song Dynasty" because that's the common name. However, you weren't changing the article name, just changing the name in the infobox-- also inappropriate as it should match the article name. If you were to provide a source and convince me, the right thing to do is put a note in the intro about naming. I'm still waiting for such a source, though. siafu 04:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- 國號大宋 http://big5.china.com.cn/book/txt/2007-07/10/content_8504110.htm, http://big5.mofcom.gov.cn/gate/big5/shuku.mofcom.gov.cn/book/htmfile/90/s54_2.htm, http://www.millionbook.net/gd/q/qiancai/syqz/001.htm, 國號大唐 http://www.hawh.cn:82/gate/big5/www.hawh.cn/Template/article/display38.jsp?mid=20041231124501, http://big5.xinhuanet.com/gate/big5/www.ha.xinhuanet.com/gfwh/2007-01/08/content_7639738.htm, http://cyberec.freethemes.com/history/T510895a.htm. --Lmmnhn 04:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Can you perhaps explain to me why there is no mention of 大宋 or 大唐 on [1] and [2] respectively? siafu 14:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- 唐朝正式國號為「唐」，而非「大唐」。元朝是中國史上第一個把「大」字加入正式國號的朝代。參見明朝人朱國禎《涌幢小品》卷二「國號」條：「國號上加大字，始於胡元，我朝因之。……其言大漢、大唐、大宋者，乃臣子及外夷尊稱之詞。」 [3], it explained that Tang Dynasty's native name is "Tang" but not "Great Tang" or "The Tang Dynasty" --Lmmnhn 22:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Can you perhaps explain to me why there is no mention of 大宋 or 大唐 on [1] and [2] respectively? siafu 14:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- 國號大宋 http://big5.china.com.cn/book/txt/2007-07/10/content_8504110.htm, http://big5.mofcom.gov.cn/gate/big5/shuku.mofcom.gov.cn/book/htmfile/90/s54_2.htm, http://www.millionbook.net/gd/q/qiancai/syqz/001.htm, 國號大唐 http://www.hawh.cn:82/gate/big5/www.hawh.cn/Template/article/display38.jsp?mid=20041231124501, http://big5.xinhuanet.com/gate/big5/www.ha.xinhuanet.com/gfwh/2007-01/08/content_7639738.htm, http://cyberec.freethemes.com/history/T510895a.htm. --Lmmnhn 04:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Well, there's not just me to deal with on this one. Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Use common names indicates that the article must be named "Song Dynasty" because that's the common name. However, you weren't changing the article name, just changing the name in the infobox-- also inappropriate as it should match the article name. If you were to provide a source and convince me, the right thing to do is put a note in the intro about naming. I'm still waiting for such a source, though. siafu 04:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- If you don't mind, I think "Song" will be a compromise between "Great Song" and "The Song Dynasty", and Tang as well.--Lmmnhn 04:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- If you're trying to tell me that "Dynasty" is a poor translation for 朝, that's a rather different matter, but if you're trying to say that "大宋" was the common or even formal name for the "state" that existed in China between 960 and 1279, I'm afraid I have to disagree and you'll have to provide an actual source that indicates that. And yes, I do speak Chinese, though not as well as I used to. siafu 03:57, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- I don't know if you speak Chinese or not, but I am a native Chinese speaker. It is the name of a novel, but there is the country name 大宋 in the title, and 中國大宋皇帝 means "Great Song Emperor of China", so they both indicates that the dynasty was called "Great Song". Even if the native name of the country is not "Great Song" or "Song", doesn't mean that it should be "The Song Dynasty"--Lmmnhn 03:36, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Perhaps you should read the articles you are citing; 大宋宣和遺事 is the name of a novel, not a dynasty. 中國大宋皇帝 means the "Great Chinese Song Emperor", though it doesn't sound so hamfisted in Chinese. Neither indicates that the dynasty was called "Great Song". siafu 03:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E5%AE%8B%E5%AE%A3%E5%92%8C%E9%81%97%E4%BA%8B 大宋宣和遺事, http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E5%AE%8B%E9%92%A6%E5%AE%97&variant=zh-hk 中國大宋皇帝, no country would have their native name call X朝 (X dynasty). "Dynasty" is the term that is used to desribe a period by the historian.--Lmmnhn 03:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- You mean ASIDE from the featured articles on the Chinese wikipedia? Since the burden of proof is on you anyway, why don't you tell me what the evidence is? siafu 02:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
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