Talk:Live and Let Die (novel)

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Good article Live and Let Die (novel) has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
July 13, 2008 Good article nominee Listed
To-do list for Live and Let Die (novel): edit · history · watch · refresh

This is the WikiProject James Bond collaboration of the week from June 30, 2007 to July 14, 2007. Here are some of the tasks you can do to get it to good article status.

Feel free to strike through anything that is complete, but do not remove.
  • Expand lead
  • Clean Up Plot Summary, perhaps expand a little bit.
  • Add a "Adaptions" or "Adaption history" to the article
    • Add a subsection entitled "1973 film"
    • Merge the Comic book section as a sub section of Adaptions.
  • Add a "Characters" section, basically like the film page, just without cast, and different bios.
  • In the 1973 section, give a detailed summary of the 8th James Bond film.
  • Reference all bits (except plot)
  • Remove trivia, and intergrate important bits into article.
  • Is there information on how Fleming devised the story.
  • In the lead, there is a statement about a chapter title, could we elaborate on this more. Perhaps in the "Production history" section.

The above was added by SpecialWindler talk 11:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC) And updated by SpecialWindler talk 22:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Output of Lazy Peer Review program

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program:

  • There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
    • is considered
    • might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment).[?]
  • Avoid using contractions like (outside of quotations): didn't.
  • Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Kweeket 18:33, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sex

"Fleming's natural English reserve has been blamed for his fumbling descriptions of sex scenes in Live and Let Die."

Might it not also have more to do with the fact that at the date it was published, you could only really say so much in a mainstream novel? --MacRusgail 12:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA review comments

Here are my review comments:

  • I don't think the character list is entirely appropriate, I'd prefer to see the characters, should they be significant enough, be wikilinked in the prose of the plot summary. Also, not sure why the characters are in bold either. In any case, the character list should follow the summary as it's confusing to have mini-summaries with each character and then the whole plot summary after.
    • Y Done I think the information is relevant, and has been moved down the page under plot. SpecialWindler talk 05:17, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
  • This probably shows my ignorance, but does the book not have an ISBN now? Perhaps the infobox ISBN is supposed to relate to the first edition, which may not have had an ISBN, in which case ignore this.
    • Y Done The first edition was published before ISBN came around, so. The ISBN's of later publications are in the publication history. SpecialWindler talk 06:05, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
  • "MI-6" or "MI6"? consistency required.
  • Typos - "practicioner", "hopsital", "barricuda" to name but three...
    • Y Done Kweeket 00:15, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Racism section has four very short paragraphs, consider merging.
    • Y Done The first two paragraphs are the same with just a quote in the middle. SpecialWindler talk 12:24, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
  • "...obvious inference being ..." is this original research or has somebody of prominence suggested it? If so, let's cite them.
    • Y Done Added reference Tovojolo 13:33, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Sex section has three short paragraphs, definitely merge the last of them into para two.
  • I'd wikilink blaxploitation, it's important.
    • Y Done Kweeket 00:15, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Turn the list of differences from the film into prose.
    • Y Done
  • "...part of the Casino Royale collection that includes Casino Royale and Moonraker..." what exactly is the Casino Royale collection?
  • Comic strip adaptation section could do with citation.
  • Why is the publication history small font?
  • Can the Category:Caribbean be refined?
    • N Not done I couldn't find a suitable category undeneath that one (sub categories) like "Fiction set in the Caribbean" but. Personally I don't think it should be there. But when you review this again you can remove it, If you feel like. It not a hard thing to do. SpecialWindler talk 05:19, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I think these issues can be resolved, particularly as it's a COTW currently, so I'll put the GA on-hold. Let me know if you'd like me to re-review it in due course. The Rambling Man 17:24, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Transcripts

You can read some Bond books here (LALD as well as TB, CR, FYEO, FRWL)

http://www.scribd.com/people/documents/1054

[edit] GA re-review

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

My concerns have now been addressed so I'm happy to make this a good article. The Rambling Man 16:28, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Racism

The article is factually incorrect when it states: "His writing style cannot divert attention away from his copious use of the word "nigger" in the novel. It is used, generally, in reference to black people and, specifically, in reference to Mr. Big. Fleming uses the word to denote people of passion who think by instinct, in contrast to Bond and other white people, whom Fleming regards as thinking by logic. [2]"

The word appears twice in the text.

The first time is the usage refered to in the citation - "Nigger Heaven" - which refers to the balconies of segregated theatres. There is even a wiki entry for this reference. If this is the name used to refer to the place then its hard to consider that racist.

The second usage comes from the character Solitair when Bond rescues her and she says: "I've been shut up with him and his nigger gangsters for nearly a year."

Having just read the book looking for instances, these are the only 2 I found.

Hence the phrase "copious use of the word nigger" is factually incorrect.

The discussion of whether the book is racist is entirely appropriate. It seemed racist to me. Ian Fleming seemed to spread stereo types wildly. All black dialog is presented as poorly as one would find in a Mark Twain novel. The only intelligent black character is the villian.

But use of the word copiously is entirely incorrect.

(Note: This my first wiki contribution. Please forgive any missing common standards.)

Billvaxman (talk) 00:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC) billvaxman