Talk:List of villains in Ben 10

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Contents 1 Proper title? 2 full powered Ghostfreak 3 Main Villains 3.1 Dr. Animo 3.2 Enoch and the Forever Knights 3.3 What the main villians want from Ben 3.4 Main Villain vs. Recurring Villain 4 Too Long 5 Grouping 6 Future Vilgax/Animo 7 Kevin's Reasons for sociopath actions 8 GhostFreak really dead? 9 Sixsix's face 10 Kevin's original power 11 Recurring Villains 11.1 Who Qualifies? 11.2 Ghostfreak's minions 12 Images 13 Fair use rationale for Image:Ep16 screenshot.jpg 14 Eon's Status 15 Kevin 11,000 16 sludges 17 Kevin's son 18 kevin 11 19 Eon 20 Vilgax 21 Stop putting "Beneon" 22 Kevin Levin??? 23 Kevins Status 24 Sublimino and the Circus Freaks 25 DNALIENS/Highbreed 26 Dr. Animo in Ben 10,000 27 Images? 28 No Merge

[edit] Proper title?

While a lot of these characters are truly evil (Vilgax, Animo, Zombozo, etc), many of the characters on the list don't really have strictly villainous intentions, but were rather out for revenge (Clancey), relatively minor personal gain (Kraab, Six Vigma, Phil, Melville), or fun (Megawhatt), and some others just simply carry out biological programming without true villainous desire (Bermuda Triangle aliens, Fungal Brain, Limax, The Great One). For that reason I think that "List of enemies in Ben 10" would be a more appropriate title than "List of villains in Ben 10." Thoughts? You Can't See Me! 07:49, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I'd keep it the way it is. While some of them are merely following biological imperatives, these still bring them into direct conflict with Ben 10, who is the hero.--204.76.128.217 11:41, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, they were brought into direct conflict with the hero, making them enemies. But enemies are not automatically villains. Limax, Fungal Brain, Bermuda Triangle Aliens, and The Great One only sought to fulfill biological needs, just like a human would destroy a once-living organism and consume it. That is not quite a villainous act. Similarly, Megawhatt was only out for fun; joyriders, streakers, and underage drinkers are all out for fun as well and do so by breaking the law, but they are not villains. And so forth. You Can't See Me! 02:19, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I see what you mean, but the villain (or antagonist) of a story or episode is the one who comes in direct conflict with the hero, and who is behind or involved in the events transpiring for the episode or story. Motives and reasons don't come into play because their methods are not approved by the hero. As such, anyone who comes into direct conflict with the hero is technically an antagonist, making them a villain.

[edit] full powered Ghostfreak

Can somebody please post a picture of Ghostfreak already at full power from Be Afraid of the Dark? Superlogan7437 20:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Main Villains

[edit] Dr. Animo

I would like to suggest Dr. Animo be moved to the Main Villains part. He appears in all 3 seasons, and it has been shown he will continue to be Ben's enemy (Ben 10,000). If Ghostfreak (who has only appeared twice as a villain) is considered one, I would consider animo one as well. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.91.155.164 (talk) 22:01, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

Done. 68.251.177.195 18:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Enoch and the Forever Knights

The Forever Knights are main villains. They appear in three episodes. Just like Ghostfreak. That is only one episode less than Kevin. What is the definition of a MAIN VILLAN, if 3 ongoing appearances are not the definer? They are an ongoing prescience in the series, and they have proclaimed themselves an ongoing threat to Ben and family. Why are they not considered MAIN VILLANS. Any sensible criteria for such a listing -- they fit! --Jason Palpatine 00:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Hm... I was going to start this section but...

I disagree. The Forever Knights are not technically main villains. A main villain, by definition, is the villain that drives the plot in one or more story arcs (or volumes, seasons, or whatever might apply).

• Season 1's story was heavily driven by Vilgax's desire for the Omnitrix, hence his placement as a main villain.
• Season 2 had less of a plot, but one could argue that the plot-centric episodes were those that involved Kevin due to the way that the season concluded. Kevin's desire to kill Ben could be considered the driving factor of that season, thus Kevin's placement as a main villain.
• Season 3 was undoubtedly driven by Ghostfreak and his minions. Therefore, Ghostfreak is a main villain.

Animo and Enoch both seem like main-villain-types, but so far, none of them have controlled a long part of a story; both of them appeared only once each season, and none of their schemes were connected. Both of them have a good chance of becomming main villains in Season 4 or any future seasons, but neither of them currently are. You Can't See Me! 02:15, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Control? Just how much control must there be for such consideration? MAIN VILLAN is supposed to show a significant definer of the show's direction -- then I belive "drives the plot in one or more story arcs (or volumes, seasons, or whatever might apply)" clearly does apply to the Knights. They have an agenda -- albeit, not clearly shown -- and that is a story arc. It just is not as short as the others. They are clearly a force that is/will be reconed with throught the series -- much as the THANAGARIANS were to the JLA. They didn't come to the forefront until the initial series final. They are too significant not to be on the MAIN VILLANS section. --Jason Palpatine 02:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Just because they have an agenda does not mean they are a focus. For all intents and purposes, that "agenda" is just open-ended plot lines for later development. Only when they resolve as something do they become an actual arc. Enoch and co. and no more main villains than Dr. Animo. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 02:39, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Have a look at the schemes that they have gone through. If you consider "A Small Problem" to be an introductory episode for the Knights, they had two plots:

• Find the super-special ancient Mayan weapon and use it to conquer the world.
• Replace the president with a robot and use him as a puppet.

As of now, they just appear to be villains of the week. They did not drive any particular story arc because their plans lack coherence; once their first plan was totaled, they moved on to another. Now we look at Vilgax.

• He was first seen trying to take the Omnitrix before it jumped on Ben.
• He sent robots to retrieve it.
• He sent bounty hunters to retrieve it.
• He sent more robots to retrieve it.
• He went for it himself.
• He went for it himself again.

Season one was centered around Vilgax's scheme to attain the Omnitrix and Ben evading his attempts. Vilgax was a driving force. Kevin's were less obvious, but discounting his introductory appearance...

• He framed Ben, luring him out, then tried to kill him.
• He tried to kill Ben again.
• He tried to kill Ben with the assistance of Vilgax.

Season 2 had more villain-of-the-week episodes, but the plot-centric episodes were driven by Kevin's aspiration of killing Ben. Ghostfreak's should be more obvious, so I won't do that for the sake of time.

Point being, Enoch has not driven a story arc consisting of more than a single episode at a time. He therefore does not meet the qualifications of a "main villain," and is only secondary at this point. You Can't See Me! 02:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Disagree -- big time. "...their plans lack coherence"?!?!?! Let's see:

The fact that "A Small Problem" was an introductory episode for the Knights does not discredit it. All 3 episodes showed that THE ORGANIZATION was a force to be reconed with.

• "A Small Problem", established that they were collecting advanced technology (yes alot of it is of Alien origin, but it can be infered that a potion of their collection was terresrial) in much the same way as the Torchwood Institute in Doctor Who.
• The other 2 episodes showed that they have a long term objective of world domination.

"Ultimate Weapon" and "The Unnaturals" displayed the fact that they have a variety of ongoing projects. There is no evidence that they operate on the principle of "once their first plan was totaled, they moved on to another". THE ORGANIZATION is evidently sizable and well financed. Their headquarters was destroyed in "A Small Proble," but that only hurt them. It was a setback, nothing more; it didn't remove them from the playing board. And, like any major operating organization, they would have many projects in work at any given moment -- not just one sceeme at a time. You don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Surly, you don't belive that The Unnaturals plan was concieved, engineered and attempted in the short span only the few weeks following Ultimate Weapon? The amount of time involved in that plot showed that it must have been being worked on for a considerable amount of time long before Ben ever found the Onitrix (months, possibly even more than a year). Remember, the series is set during the time period of a single summer.

Enoch's appearance (almost a cameo) at the end of The Unnaturals demonstrated that there is an ongoing story arc with them. An ongoing story arc would be a qualifier for them to be more than just villain of the week listing. And his remarks about the Tennisons, would clearly mean that they will return again in season 4.

As for Kevin, he is only a sociopath with an obsession with Ben. Hardy what I would consider as significant a factor as what is driving THE ORGANIZATION. Remember, they are the ONLY vilians to make appearances in all three seasons of the show. Kevin and Vilgax didn't make any appearances in the third season (a flashback in "The Visitor" doen't count); and Ghostfreak as a villian didn't appear until the current season.

"Season 3 was undoubtedly driven by Ghostfreak and his minions. Therefore, Ghostfreak is a main villain." Why do you say that? Ghostfreak was introduced as a seperate character in one episode and reapeared in another -- by your own criteria, that is not enough to justify him as a Main Villan. The fact that he was unseen in BENWOLF is irrelevant.

The producers of the show clearly have longterm plans for these guys. Much the same way the producers of JLA had long term plans for Hawkgirl and CADMUS. Would you call either of them minor?

Just what more is needed here?

--Jason Palpatine 08:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

PS: Let's see what some of the others have to say about this; ok? You and I will clearly never come to an agreement on this if this discussion is only between the two of us. The opinions of some third parties should be waited for -- I think they would be helpful. -- JP

PSS: Thank you for your postings and opinions here. You make some clear and concise points. Your opinions are important here. That's right, I'm actually GLAD you disagree with me. An opposing (not to be cofused with wrong) viewpoint is esential for any undertaking such as this online reference. You know, there was an episode of the Twilight Zone I remember, where I guy ended up in a world where everything went his way. Everyone agreed with him and liked the things he liked. The guy was in hell. So, again, thanks. -- JP

PSSS: The concept of a power attempting to replace the President with a puppet is not new, of course. A similar plot was explored in The Hundred Days of the Dragon. -- JP

Going purely by relevance to the overall plot, Enoch and co. have none. They are merely a villain of the week reused a few times. I once again compare with Dr. Animo. He has appeared three times. Each time has the same theme: mutate animals (more or less). Enoch has the "shadow villain" thing going, but that's all. He doesn't hold the staying power of these other villains, whose actions reach behind the scenes of the plot-based episodes of the series. Enoch is just an example of an open-ended villain, given deliberately vague and unresolved plans to facilitate future story-writing. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 08:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Going purely by relevance to the overall plot, Enoch and co. have much. As I said, they are the only villian to appear in every season. I also said, I do not wish this discussion to merely be an argument between the two of us -- let's see what some of the others have to say on the matter. And NO, I have not reverted the article again. --Jason Palpatine 12:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

There's actually two people arguing against you. Don't let the similar names fool you. And your claim is false. Animo and Vilgax have also appeared in all three seasons. That doesn't mean that Animo is somehow an important villain. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:49, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

When did Vilgax appear in season 3? The flashback in VISITOR doesn't count. When did Amino appear in Season 2? And do you know why they are only doing 13 episodes to a season instead of the normal 22? And -- THE ORGANIZATION -- Any sensible criteria for such a MAIN VILLIAN listing -- they fit! --Jason Palpatine 22:20, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

To address in order:

1. Ben 10,000 (season 3 Vilgax and Animo), Dr. Animo and the Mutant Ray (for someone who is so insistent on pointing out the "Boy" mistake, you should have know this).
2. 13 episodes is normal, for animated series, not 22.
3. I don't even get your final rant here. I'll put this in simple terms. Vilgax, Kevin, and Ghostfreak all make their mark on a specific season; Vilgax does it in two by way of Kevin. With Enoch and co., they just come and go and nothing is made of it. All open-endedness and no follow-up. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

You had a lot of points. Would you mind if I answer them this way...

"Ultimate Weapon" and "The Unnaturals" displayed the fact that they have a variety of ongoing projects. There is no evidence that they operate on the principle of "once their first plan was totaled, they moved on to another". THE ORGANIZATION is evidently sizable and well financed. Their headquarters was destroyed in "A Small Problem," but that only hurt them. It was a setback, nothing more; it didn't remove them from the playing board. And, like any major operating organization, they would have many projects in work at any given moment -- not just one sceeme at a time. You don't put all your eggs in one basket.

That is the very definition of a villain of the week - They attempt a variety of plans with similar but vague goals. Vilgax's goal was specific: He wanted the Omnitrix. Kevin's goal was specific: He wanted to kill Ben. Ghostfreak's goal was specific: He built a device that would block out the sun so that he could roam free on the planet. World conquest is an extremely vague goal that is more-or-less the overall goal of any villain worth his title. Enoch goes by a different plan each time. In essence, his plans were trumped and he was sent back to the drawing board. Vilgax, Kevin, and Ghostfreak had one ongoing, specific goal that was never permanently stopped (and in fact, Vilgax and Kevin's goals are still ongoing)

Enoch's appearance (almost a cameo) at the end of The Unnaturals demonstrated that there is an ongoing story arc with them. An ongoing story arc would be a qualifier for them to be more than just villain of the week listing. And his remarks about the Tennisons, would clearly mean that they will return again in season 4.

There's not a doubt in my mind that they will return in Season 4 and that they will be main villains at some point. However, we work in the present, and as such only list what happened in the past.

As for Kevin, he is only a sociopath with an obsession with Ben. Hardy what I would consider as significant a factor as what is driving THE ORGANIZATION. Remember, they are the ONLY vilians to make appearances in all three seasons of the show. Kevin and Vilgax didn't make any appearances in the third season (a flashback in "The Visitor" doen't count); and Ghostfreak as a villian didn't appear until the current season.

I'd compare Kevin to Vlad Plasmius. He is a central villain not only for his deeds, but because he serves as the vengeful antithesis to the main character. His will to kill Ben drove the very few plot events of Season 2 - Kevin's mutation, his second attack on Ben which drew the attention of Vigma, his assumption of the Megacruiser's control, and ultimately, the retrieval and revival of Vilgax.

"Season 3 was undoubtedly driven by Ghostfreak and his minions. Therefore, Ghostfreak is a main villain." Why do you say that? Ghostfreak was introduced as a seperate character in one episode and reapeared in another -- by your own criteria, that is not enough to justify him as a Main Villan. The fact that he was unseen in BENWOLF is irrelevant.

If not Ghostfreak, then who drove the third season? A villain does not have to be seen in every episode regarding his plot. The Brotherhood of Evil was unseen for a large portion of Teen Titans' fifth-season plot episodes. Ghostfreak made his introduction in Season 2 and seemingly died. The following events form the plot of Season 3:

• Ben fights the Alien Werewolf. The Wolf stole technology and built an unknown device, which he accomplished even in his defeat.
• Ben fights the Alien Mummy. The Mummy harvested corrodium for an unknown reason, and also accomplished even in defeat. Ben and Gwen realize that the two are connected due to Purple Lightning.
• Ben and co. go to the space center to investigate the Purple Lightning, where the plot unravels. Dr. Vicktor reveals that he was in charge of the mummy and the werewolf under the command of Ghostfreak. Hence, Ghostfreak drove the central plot of Season 3.
• If unconvinced at this point, Ghostfreak's return was so important that it called for the first (and currently, the only) two-episode sequence in the series. Ghostfreak's plan is also made known in the second part of this episode, proving that he was not just calling for random tasks but that he had one long, coherent plan.

PS: Let's see what some of the others have to say about this; ok? You and I will clearly never come to an agreement on this if this discussion is only between the two of us. The opinions of some third parties should be waited for -- I think they would be helpful. -- JP

Indeed, other insights would be appreciated. I don't see anything stopping them, however. :)

PSS: Thank you for your postings and opinions here. You make some clear and concise points. Your opinions are important here. That's right, I'm actually GLAD you disagree with me. An opposing (not to be cofused with wrong) viewpoint is esential for any undertaking such as this online reference. You know, there was an episode of the Twilight Zone I remember, where I guy ended up in a world where everything went his way. Everyone agreed with him and liked the things he liked. The guy was in hell. So, again, thanks. -- JP

Woah, coincidence! I just saw that one today!

The producers of the show clearly have longterm plans for these guys. Much the same way the producers of JLA had long term plans for Hawkgirl and CADMUS. Would you call either of them minor?

CADMUS did appear to be a minor enemy in JLU at first - until it finally took over the plot and triggered important events. The same can be said for Enoch and co. I have no doubt that they eventually will do something huge. However, until it is obvious that they are driving a story arc, they can only be considered minor enemies. Kevin and Ghostfreak were both minor villains at first, but they eventually assumed control of story arcs.

When did Vilgax appear in season 3? The flashback in VISITOR doesn't count. When did Amino appear in Season 2? And do you know why they are only doing 13 episodes to a season instead of the normal 22? And -- THE ORGANIZATION -- Any sensible criteria for such a MAIN VILLIAN listing -- they fit! --Jason Palpatine 22:20, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Vilgax and Animo appeared in Season 3's Ben 10,000. Animo appeared in Season 2's Dr. Animo and the Mutant Ray.

Sorry. I thought Dr. Animo and the Mutant Ray was a season 3 episode. Given 10,000's future setting, I consider it to be too out of place in regards to the present to be considered aplicable in relation to significance. --Jason Palpatine 06:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

On the other hand, it displays that Vilgax and Animo still plague Ben twenty years into the future. That shows something about their characters which I believe is significant. You Can't See Me! 21:55, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

We agree to disagree. 'Nuff said. --Jason Palpatine 03:04, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

well, that seems to have ended, but if you watched the Season 4 premiere it seems very argueable that the Forever Knights will be a driving plot force in this season. just saying. Speaketh now to me! 14:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What the main villians want from Ben

There's one thing that all the main villians want from Ben: the Omnitrix, each with their own reason. Vilgax wants to use it to create an army and conquer the universe. Kevin wants it to take over the earth after stealing it in "Back with a Vengence". Ghostfreak wants it to so he can be complete and take over the world. Superlogan7437 01:20, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

An interesting criteria. Are you saying that a villian must have knowledge about the Onmitrix in order to be classified as a MAIN VILLIAN? --Jason Palpatine 02:55, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes 24.98.155.194 21:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I just thought of something; all three of them have a second common goal besides the Omnitrix -- the want to take over the world/universe. That is also THE ORGANIZATION's primary goal as well. The difference is, they still do not know about the Omitrix, unlike the others. --Jason Palpatine 07:21, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

That isn't criteria, just a common theme. Don't make them main villains. What makes them main villains is the attention they get. The three listed each got a season devoted to them. Everyone else is a villain of the week, regardless of their re-use. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 07:28, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Vilgax did have an entire season devoted to him, yes. Kevin, on the other hand, merely made more than one appearance in the second season; he really wasn't a driving force except in the season final where he made the big mistake of crossing Vilgax. He didn't drive the season. As for Ghostfreak, he only appeared in a single episode in season 3 (a 2 parter yes, but still a single story) -- I don't consider him even worthy of being classed with Vilgax. And, like I said before: We agree to disagree. --Jason Palpatine 08:16, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

We do indeed, but still I must point out why your reasoning is flawed. Kevin freed Vilgax, and it was Ben's interactions with Kevin that led him to do it. Kevin drove the plot, in spite of Vilgax hogging the glory at the end. Likewise, Ghostfreak, though absent for most of it, was the one orchestrating the plot through season 3 (why the filler'd the finale is beyond me). — Someguy0830 (T | C) 08:21, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Jason, I'm curious about why you don't think of Ghostfreak as a major villain. While he did not appear until the last two-part of Season 3 (not including his initial appearance), he clearly drove the plot of the third season - the mummy, the wolf, and Dr. Vicktor were all working under his orders, just like the FKs work under Enoch's orders.

Furthermore, Ghostfreak is the only villain thus far to achieve his final goal, if only for a moment. Even Vilgax, the ultimate evil being, failed numerous times in his quest for the Omnitrix. Ghostfreak was able to block out the sun and mutate (to the best of our knowledge) every living being on earth for a short time, and it was really his henchman that screwed it up, not Ben. That's farther than any other villain has gotten in Ben 10. You Can't See Me! 02:19, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, other insights would be appreciated. I don't see anything stopping them, however. :) You know, I don't see anything stopping them either. But I don'y see anyone else acting on the matter either. As an ancestor of mine once said -- "Curiouser and curiouser." Oh well. --Jason Palpatine 09:20, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Random tangent. If the writers in those Bandai interviews are to be believed, Vilagx will succeed eventually. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 09:22, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Someguy and You Can't See Me. It doesn't matter how few (or how many, as the case is with the Forever Knights at this time) times a character appears. What matters is that they were driving the plot of the season that they are considered the main villain of. Vilgax's desire to obtain the Omnitrix fuels Season 1, leading up to his climactic face-to-face encounter with Ben. Kevin's position is a bit harder to discern, given that Season 2 had far less of a plot. However, if it weren't for Kevin's interactions with Ben during the few plot-centric episodes of the season, he never would have unleashed Vilgax, which resulted in the finale of Season 2. Ghostfreak, on the other hand, is quite easy to see as a main villain. Dr. Vicktor said it himself "Oh but it's not my plan. It's the master's. It always was!", proving that despite his minimal appearances, Ghostfreak was indeed behind the events of Season 3. Enoch and the others, despite appearing several times, have not had an important enough role in the MAIN plot of the past three seasons to be considered main villains. Also, Enoch could not be considered a main villain anyway, given that he is in fact a subordinate to the Forever King. A main villain would be at the top of the chain of command. Vilgax led an army of robots, Kevin took orders from no one, and Ghostfreak had three monster minions. The fact that they were all in command proves their superiority. So, even if the Forever Knights become main villains, the Forever King will most likely be listed as the actual main villain, due to the fact that he is truly in command of the Forever Knights. As an example, despite the fact that Ghostfreak's minions have had more screentime in Season 3 than Ghostfreak, Ghostfreak was considered the main villain because it was his plan, just as it is the Forever King's plans that the Forever Knights are followingMegaWhatt 00:20, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Main Villain vs. Recurring Villain

I noticed there's a bit of a dissagreement on who counts as a main villain, so I just thought I'd through my idea out for consideration: Recurring Villains. Main villains should be those who drive the plot, either of an individual season (like Kevin and Ghostfreak) or the entire show overall (like Vilgax). I'm not saying Enoch and Co. aren't worth mentioning, but until they do something truly major (most likely spanning several episodes in the same season), they would only qualify as recurring villains, like Dr. Animo. They aren't the only ones, though: Hex and Charmcaster, and the Circus Freaks will all probably return in season 4, but like in the past, they'll probably only have one episode apiece. Even if the Forever Knights never become Main Villains (which they probably will eventually), being recurring villains is still worth something. In fact, there should be a new section to this article: put recurring villains between main villains and secondary villains. I'd say they're all worth pointing out. 67.171.218.238 14:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I believe there should be three groupings; Main Villains, Recurring Villains and Villains of the Week. That way Dr. Animo and Enoch, important villains in Ben 10, would be more appreciated compared to the one-off villains.

I agree too, but instead of "Villains of the Week" the third category should be "Minor villains".MegaWhatt 13:00, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Apparently somebody doesn't like my idea (yes, I'm the anonymous user who started this section, but that's not important). I tried separating Recurring Villains from Main Villains only for someone to relabel the Main Villains as Recurring Villains as well. I don't want to start an edit war over something like this, but I'm going to revert it just this once.

While on the subject, does anyone think that Sixsix should be considered a Recurring Villain? I didn't think so until Secret of the Omnitrix. Now I'm not sure one way or the other. The world's hungriest paperweight 15:11, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that the Circus Freak Trio shouldn't be with Animo and co., because when they appeared they were minions for somebody else. About Sixsix, hard to say, let's wait a while until we decide. Rhonin the wizard 22:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, the Circus Freaks showed up once each in the first two seasons, and they were mentioned at the end of Ben 10,000 (although some people may not agree that it was them). They haven't appeared yet in season four, but they probably will. If they do, I rest my case. If they don't, I stand corrected. P.S. Ghostfreak forced them to help him in Ghostfreaked Out. They were originally working for themselves, which means they are more than just minions. The world's hungriest paperweight 23:59, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Too Long

I thought of putting this template ({{verylong}}) up, but again... how could this article get shorter? But then again... Is it necessary to include every single villain that appeared in Ben 10? What do you think? --PostScript (info/talk/contribs) 18:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, 45kb is pretty bad, but I don't think it's so bad that shortening is an absolute requirement. Plus, there's no really good way to wipe out the various Villains of the Week, since they are for the most part equally notable; wiping them all out would result in something pathetically short. Let's wait and see how the fourth season goes in terms of villains before making a decision. You Can't See Me! 04:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grouping

I have an idea; how about liting to two villain teams with their entries grouped together? Acid Breath, Frightwig, and Thumbskull are a team, first working for Zombozo and later on their own. Yenaldooshi, Doctor Vicktor, and Mummy alien also were a team, working under Ghostfreak. The only other comparable team is The Great One's Worshipers, but they do not have any individual information in order seperate them. How about listing their individual enteries as level 3 headers under a team headr; such as maybe The Freaks and Ghostfreak's Minions? Jason Palpatine 03:33, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I like it, though I'm not too thrilled about "The Freaks". I can't think of any really defining names, however, so we'll go with that for now. You Can't See Me! 04:52, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems acceptable. It could shorten the article slightely, too. Javo 718 20:50, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Future Vilgax/Animo

Why hasn't anyone put up pics of Vilgax and Animo's future forms, like they did for Ben?

[edit] Kevin's Reasons for sociopath actions

Shouldn't it be mentioned that Kevin most likely went insane because he was abandoned at a very early age(He said this when talking to Ben in the Arcade)? SanjiSasuke 12:44, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget about him being made fun of as a possable cause. Remember his response to Ben asking him if he'd hurt innocent people just to get back at him in "Framed"? "Nobody's innocent, they just haven't had the chance to make fun of me yet.", that pretty much sums up the fact he'd been made fun of a lot and wants revenge, thus making a good reason to be a sociopath. I tried putting that in before but someone removed it. Superx 00:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

So did I thats Why I am requesting it SanjiSasuke 15:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GhostFreak really dead?

I coudn't help but notice, under Ghostfreaks profile on the official site, it mentions that sunlight turns ectonurites into vapor of some sort, and I think it mentioned that it's kind of like a weakend state of being, not actually being dead. So, is it right to say that Ghostfreak is dead? He could just be in an immobile form.

That might explain how he returned in season 3.

In the end of The Return, Ghostfreak says "I live!". That would mean he was dead earlier —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.133.223 (talk) 03:56, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sixsix's face

Could anyone out up a picture of this? I think it's pretty cool, and it would go well with his other picture. Bluecatcinema 11:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kevin's original power

In "Grudge Match" Kevin was electrocuted by the thing placed on his chest and he did not absorb it's energy. Did Kevin lose that power or can he only absorb certain kinds of energy?

Apparently Kevin lost his original abilities when he got stuck in an Alien form.--Marhawkman 11:55, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

is there a source for that? in the episode he did say that he had all bens powers "PLUS MY OWN"81.108.233.59 18:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I beleive the "plus my own" comment was from before he was permanently stuck, but I'm not quite sure.--Marhawkman 22:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I believe that he can only absorb energy when he is human because in the Cartoon Network Ben 10 Alien Force game, Forever Defense, you play as him and he is a human, not an amalgam. His power in that game is to absorb energy. I'm not exactly sure though.--Yenaldooshi (talk) 21:23, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Recurring Villains

[edit] Who Qualifies?

It seems things got a little interesting while I was asleep last night. Although we could all just randomly shuffle the villains around to where we think they should go, I think it would be a better idea if we more or less came to an agreement on who qualifies as a Recurring Villain. Here are my nominees:

• Dr. Animo
• Hex and Charmcaster (I like to group them together in my mind, but their sections should be kept separate.)
• The Forever Knights
• The Circus Freaks

I also mentioned Sixsix as a possible Recurring Villain. I wouldn't have considered him one since he didn't appear in season three, but then he returned for Ben 10: Secret of the Omnitrix. Now I'm not sure if he should be a Recurring Villain or not, so I'm hoping to hear other people's opinions. The world's hungriest paperweight 16:26, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I think we should keep Animo, Hex, Charmcaster and the Forever Knights, take the Circus Freak Trio out, if they appear in season 4 put them back in. As for Sixsix I don't think he should be, that's more because I don't see the movie being apart of the series because there are some things unexplained in it. Rhonin the wizard 09:24, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Sixsix recurs even without counting the movie; after his initial appearance, he serves as the villain in The Galactic Enforcers. You Can't Review Me!!! 10:55, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I know, it's just that I think a recurring villain should have appeared at least three times in the show. Rhonin the wizard 11:02, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

If you check Cartoon Network, it would seem that Secret of the Omnitrix is considered (by them at least) to also be the first three episodes of season four. Just saying. The world's hungriest paperweight 15:21, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ghostfreak's minions

It looks like someone considers Ghostfreak's goons to be recurring villains. I can understand why, since they showed up repeatedly throughout season 3, but I don't think this is the best place for them. Now that I think about it, secondary villains isn't very appropriate either, but we can't call them main villains. Does anybody have any ideas? The world's hungriest paperweight 16:39, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Secondary is good enough for me. 68.1.128.105 19:41, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I think Secondary would be for villains who show up once or twice only. Recurring would be for villains that show up in multiple episodes, even if the episodes are in the same season.--Marhawkman 22:16, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I think they should be in Secondary, if they appear again this season move them to Recurring. Rhonin the wizard 07:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's an idea: Maybe we could list them under Ghostfreak. After all, their only appearances have been working for him. What do you guys think? The world's hungriest paperweight 18:29, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I have a question regarding Dr. Vicktor's profile. As it pointed out there, Dr. Vicktor tried teleporting Ben away to an unspecified location. However, many I've seen have pointed out how much his portal looks like one created by the Null Void Projector. Although unconfirmed, could it be mentioned in passing that such has been speculated? DanMat6288 (talk) 15:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Who the heck removed most of the images!!!!!!!!!!!????????? Davaguirre —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.152.25.72 (talk) 15:09, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Read this discussion. The world's hungriest paperweight 16:40, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Ep16 screenshot.jpg

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BetacommandBot 18:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Eon's Status

Does anyone know why Eon is listed under Secondary Villains? I mean, he's the main villain in Race Against Time, so shouldn't he be put under Main Villains? I'd do it right now, except there might be a good reason he wasn't put there in the first place. The world's hungriest paperweight 20:40, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

We don't know how major a role he will play yet. Isn't he pending his first appearance?--Marhawkman 22:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kevin 11,000

Could anyone put up pics of his human/Amalgam forms (If not, do you know where I can find them)? Bluecatcinema 12:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] sludges

were they referred to as "sludge puppies" at any point in the TV show?--Marhawkman (talk) 11:08, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

To give you any sort of answer, yes. It was when Max was reminincing(sp?) about the Plumbers' relationship with the Sludge Puppies. Maetch (talk) 16:58, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kevin's son

Im i the only one to relise how impossible it is for Kevin 11 to have a son, since he was in the Void place for so long or...did he have sex with some girl as a kid and Delvin is around a 40 year old man [yea right] or was Kevin much older then he seemed in his first apperance? the only over idea i can think of is some woman was put in the void then had Delvin with Kevin and when Animo/Vilgax opened it in the first future episode the kid and/or his mother quickly escaped. sorry to sound so formal but it was the only way to explain it —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mt 1994 (talk • contribs) 16:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

It's a cartoon. that's not important.--Marhawkman (talk) 11:07, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Kevin's so badass he can fornicate across dimensions. Happy? Like, Marhawk said, don't dwell on it. It will only cause your head to explode in a wonderfully decadent display of pinkish confetti. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 11:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

well it doesnt seem as if my hea POP! ow...hay look confetti!Mt 1994 (talk) 20:56, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

This has nothing to do with the article and Kevin escaped the Null Void and started a family on Saturn before being trapped again —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.133.223 (talk) 04:00, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] kevin 11

i think kevin does have his own powers all the time, he says in grudge match "i have all your powers, PLUS MY OWN" and in ken 10 he says that he "absorbed a few tricks from all those aliens you[ben] locked in there with me[kevin]" and how could he absorb some tricks without his origanal powers?81.108.233.59 (talk) 16:51, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Could he have also reformed? Perhaps when he didn't have fine control of his powers, they made him a bit crazy? Time in the Null Void might have also reformed him? What is to say that he might not revert sometime in the future, and become a villan again? 198.70.154.175 (talk) 01:13, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

In the premiere it's obvious he hasn't reformed, hes just honoring a fallen soldier. Rau's Speak Page 02:25, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Eon

I stuck 'im back. Why? Wikipedia's purposes do not care about canonicity. In this situation it's unclear whether it is or isn't anyways. You'd more or less need a statement from the show's creators saying it isn't canon.--Marhawkman (talk) 08:31, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vilgax

How come on Vilgax description, when it says he's a Chimera Sui Genis, it says something else about Toilet Hackabaka Banana Realm? Is it vadalized?--Yenaldooshi (talk) 22:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, yes that would be vandalism.--Marhawkman (talk) 03:50, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh. Ok, I will fix that as soon as possible. I think I found out who. SEE: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_villains_in_Ben_10&diff=187323790&oldid=187323385 Thier IP Number is: 206.230.185.102. He put Vilgax is voiced by (____ Me Hard). A word that young kids shouldn't be seeing on Wikipedia in the Ben 10 section and he added about 50 J's for aparently no reason. He called Vigax "Vilgeek" He changed it to Toliet Hackabaka Banana Realm. He has been vandalizing Vilgax's article and no one else and the only contribution he did was vadalizing Vilgax and nothing else. I think that person should be warned about this?--Yenaldooshi (talk) 14:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes I think a warning is in order. but warnings to random vandal IPs are near useless.--Marhawkman (talk) 11:08, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok.--Yenaldooshi (talk) 21:17, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stop putting "Beneon"

Stop putting "Beneon". There was no prove that Ben ever named his Eon form, "Beneon". So please stop that.--Yenaldooshi (talk) 22:25, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

His name hasn't been credited as "Beneon".--Yenaldooshi (talk) 20:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kevin Levin???

Is Kevin's last name Levin? On the Ben10Toys.net forum, it stated the Kevin 11's last name is Levin??? If true, should it be mentioned in Kevin 11's section?--Yenaldooshi (talk) 21:50, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

A forum, unless it was a post by someone involved in creation or production of the show, id doubt that it is reliable. Rau J16 20:46, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Also, it could be a typo.(figured id mention that) Rau J16 23:47, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmm...Let me check that then.--♥ Yenaldooshi ♥ Benwolf ♥ (talk) 20:49, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Proven, it was on the Ben 10: Alien Force website on Cartoon Network.--Yenaldooshi (talk) 20:23, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, yes it was. And i must say that is a stupid name. Rau's talk 21:18, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

What kind of name is Levin???!!!! Hi. I am Bob Levin. -_-' (My name is not Bob). But hey, it rymes with Kevin..Eleven. Just like Ben,Gwen, Tennyson, Ten..--Yenaldooshi (talk) 21:20, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Yea, but that makes sense, hes Ben Ten. But this is becoming forum talk so we must cease.:( Rau's talk 21:31, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Yup. The Kevin 11 section should be kept named as "Kevin 11" instead of "Kevin Levin". Kevin Levin is his name, but most people know him by Kevin 11. Plus, he calls himself Kevin 11 when he turned into the amalgam. Most people would recongnize him by his "villain name" instead of his full name. It's such a short notice, since it says his last name in Ben 10: Alien Force -_-... I changed all the Kevin 11s to Kevin Levin. Up until it says Kevin Levin turning into an amalgam and calling him by that name.--Yenaldooshi (talk) 22:54, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kevins Status

If Kevin teams up with Ben in the new series, doesnt that make him a good guy? And if he is, how would that be handled. I am bringing this up now because if he has switched sides, then we should be prepared on how to handle it. Rau's talk 18:58, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah it makes him a good guy...but then in Ken 10, he was evil...???--Yenaldooshi (talk) 21:11, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Ken 10 is a "What If...?" episode. The facts in it can be overwritten. And i know this is WP:Crystal but it never hurts to be prepared. Rau's talk 22:31, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sublimino and the Circus Freaks

Technically Sublimino isn't the new leader of the Circus Freaks. Driscoll just had them working together during the attack on Fort Knox. I've changed the article to reflect this, but felt like explaining myself here before someone tries reverting it.

On an unrelated note, was it really Volcanus that appeared on Ken 10, or just another member of his race? The world's hungriest paperweight (talk) 19:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

The commentary in the marathon says it was. — Trust not the Penguin (T | C) 19:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DNALIENS/Highbreed

I figured since the Alien Force fish thing appears in List of characters the Highbreed should be mentioned as well. Eyeguy3 April 24 2008, 8:19 PM EDT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.132.49.124 (talk) 00:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Youre right and wrong. The highbreed should be mentioned, but the fish thing should not. Rau's Speak Page 02:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dr. Animo in Ben 10,000

"He attempted to gain Kevin 11's powers by recreating his mutation. He failed and destroyed his body, managed to survive by placing his head on a primate."

I may be wrong, but I've seen Ben 10,000 at least five times (which I know isn't very much, but) and I don't remember anything being said about Animo trying to get Kevins powers. Can anyone back me up on this or am I wrong? Was it mentioned in Ken 10?Wild ste (talk) 22:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

this is news to me as well.--Marhawkman (talk) 10:19, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

It's news because its not true. That was never stated in the episode. Rau's Speak Page 10:34, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

that makes sense.--Marhawkman (talk) 11:22, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

It says in the Pop-Up episode that he was trying to recreate Kevin's mutation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.133.223 (talk) 04:06, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

68.48.133.223 is right. During the pop-up marathon, it stated that he was trying to recreate the mutation Kevin had and as a result he quite literally lost his head due to it. So, he attached his head to a gorilla body. The Martyr ^{(converse with the Martyr)} 23:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Images?

I realized that there is an image of Kevin 11 as a mutant and I just have a question. Why aren't there any more images for the other villains or characters as well? Kevin 11 has a picture of him, even thought it is his amalgam form. Are we allowed to put up some screen shots for some of the primary villians in Ben 10: Alien Force? I mean, MOST of the villains from Ben 10. appear in more than at least two or three episodes in, while in Ben 10: Alien Force's situation, not many episodes were aired yet and some people don't know what the character looks like, like the Highbreed or the NEW Forever Knights. --Yenaldooshi (talk) 17:28, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No Merge

This page should not be merged with the characters page because these two pages are too long and are better not merged. --Naruto134 00:00, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I am completely for a merge. Maybe that will force the fancruft to get cut down. Rau's Speak Page 21:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)