Talk:List of edge cities

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where does this list come from? many of these cities have been cities for at least a century. why are they on this list?

From personal knowledge of Nashville, I would consider the Cool Springs (TN) area to be more worthy of the "edge city" title than Murfreesboro, which is a free-standing college town and has been for nearly 100 years, and has been a municipality for nearly 200. Cool Springs, on the other hand, is divided roughly between the two Nashville suburbs of Brentwood and Franklin and is not incorporated as a municipality, yet has its own Chamber of Commerce. It consists mainly of office parks and retail space, and grew from a shopping mall that opened in 1991 near an I-65 interchange that was created specifically for the mall. I am not certain that it has hit the mark in terms of office space that Garreau specified (five million square feet), but if not, is likely on pace to do so in the near future. Cool Springs is more akin to the "Greater Woodfield" area around Schaumburg, IL than anything else, if not quite to the same scale.Cfclark 16:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

If there is a source indicating it has more jobs than employed residents, feel free to add it in. --Polaron | Talk 20:54, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] San Diego

I deleted La Jolla since it is actually part of the City of San Diego and therefore can't be a separate edge city. Places like Chula Vista and Del Mar might be better fits.

Actually, Edge Cities quite explicitly have nothing to do with municipal boundaries. West LA, Century City, Warner Center, and Sherman Oaks are Edge Cities even though they are (mostly) within the limits of the City of Los Angeles. The John Wayne Airport - South Coast Plaza complex is an Edge City inhabiting the intersection of four independent municipalities: Santa Ana, Costa Mesa, Newport Beach, and Irvine. Garreau includes La Jolla in his seminal list (he calls it "North City" and centers it around UCSD). EmergentProperty (talk) 03:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yikes!

It appears that someone here completely overhauled this list while confusing "edge city" with "anchor city." In an effort to restore at least some truth to this list, I've tried to restore what was previously there based on what's on Google Earth and in Garreau's book. Svalbard in winter 13:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

...and watch as it gets mercilessly deleted. Svalbard in winter 14:01, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Principal cities are either the largest city of a metro area or additional cities where the number of jobs exceeds the number of employed residents. Just cite a source indicating that this is the case for any additional cities. Anything will do really. But we should not let unsourced additions stand or else the list will become an unverifiable mess. Note that the OMB does not define what an anchor city is. --Polaron | Talk 14:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Let me be picky: a principal city is not the same as an edge city. A principal city falls under your definition. What constitutes an edge city are the five definitions in Garreau's book. For example, Reading, Pennsylvania is not an edge city because it has been around way longer than 1960. In contrast, Tysons Corner, Virginia is an edge city (according to Garreau multiple times in the book) that is not a principal city. Svalbard in winter 14:16, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Then remove those that don't qualify, as long as those that get added have some kind of citation. --Polaron | Talk 14:23, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
That's fine. But could we see some kind of citation showing that the principal cities listed here are also edge cities? (i.e. five million square feet of office space, 600,000 square feet of retail space, farmland in 1960, etc.) Svalbard in winter 15:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I think I'm definitely going to have to agree with Svalbard in winter here. Edge cities are based on criteria defined in Joel Garreau's 1991 book Edge City. That is that the cities have to be new...i.e. farmland in 1960, they have to be major job centers (5 mil sq. ft. of office space), and they have to have malls (600,000 sq. ft. of retail space). Thus, we shouldn't be adding old industrial anchor cities like Gary, Indiana to the list unless they have developed enough suburban-style office buildings and malls on the fringe since 1960 to qualify. However, there have been plenty of new edge cities that have cropped up since 1991 that fit Garreau's criteria for an edge city, and those should be added. Also keep in mind that many edge cities are suburban agglomerations that overlap many municipal jurisdictions, follow corridors, and the like, and aren't just one particular city alone. So, when I put Schaumburg/Hoffman Estates on here, don't delete it.
Something helpful to do would maybe get a copy of Garreau's book, and limit the list strictly to the examples he listed and source it, and require all additional cities to have sources that proves it passes the 5 mil. sq. ft/600k sq. ft. retail/farmland in 1960 test. Abog 20:54, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name of article

Based on the concern about worldwide view, maybe rename this article to "List of edge cities in the United States." YechielMan 23:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Am trying to fix that. I got Paris, France and Toronto, Canada up there right now, all sourced. Svalbard in winter 00:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Clearer Definition

I live in Stamford, Connecticut and though it meets some criteria such as amount of office and retail space, it is an ex-manufacturing city, chemicals are still produced there to this day and it had an urban population in the 20s and 30s, well before the 1960s definition. Ditto for neighboring Norwalk, Connecticut and probably many other cities on this list.

All page references (e.g. p. 113) are from Garreau's book Edge City. That said...
According to Garreau, Stamford is an "Uptown," (p. 113) an edge city that was historically a bedroom community, so Stamford still qualifies as an edge city despite having an urban population since the 20s. When Garreau says that an edge city location "was by no means urban" (p. 425) in 1960, he means that, at that date, it didn't have a downtown befitting a city much larger. Hope this helps. Svalbard in winter 19:51, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On Aerotropoli

Should aerotropoli also be included in this list? It seems like they fit the criteria for an Edge City... Svalbard in winter 20:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Philadelphia cleanup

I agree with Svalbard above...people are getting "edge city" confused with "anchor city", "exurb", "suburb", etc. The unsourced entries probably need to be removed. One in particular which I removed, Camden NJ, is pretty much the exact opposite of an edge city; it was a major residential and commercial center more than 50 years ago, but today is an ultra-blighted poor city that lacks even a grocery store. People need to read Garreau's criteria before wantonly adding cities to the list. Thunderbunny 02:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orange County Edge Cities

Many of the cities under Los Angeles are simply cities in Orange County, many of which have edge-city areas, but certainly should not be called edge cities themselves. For example, Newport Center, surrounding the Fashion Island shopping center in Newport Beach probably fits the criteria as an edge city, but Newport Beach itself is a 100-year-old affluent suburban/beach community. I am modifying the list appropriately. 208.252.212.2 (talk) 20:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)Dtordini

[edit] Saint Petersburg is NOT an edge city.

Here's why:

1: Saint Pete was incorporated in 1892. 2: Its population boom was before the 1960's. 3: For a while, it was larger than Tampa

Saint Petersburg would better be described as a smaller twin city in a multiple anchor city metropolitan area, due to its founding, its population and its importance.

ColdRedRain (talk) 07:33, 5 January 2008 (UTC)