Talk:List of astronauts by selection
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[edit] Just a quick note
"Astronaut" is in the US what Russians call "cosmonaut", what Chinese call "Taikonauts" etc.... Is this a bias?
[edit] TFNG: NASA Group 8
Anyone got a source for Group 8 being called TFNG? That's not usually what FNG means. Whisperednumber 12:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
- I'm going to remove it until someone gets a source for that.Whisperednumber 12:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
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- Geez, give me more than four minutes to respond! Group 8 was called TFNG, for "Thirty Five New Guys". Yes, it also stands for the military-based obscenity but that was the polite term. See Astronautix.com, Mike Mullane interview, class patch at CollectSpace.com, etc. -- Wizardimps 07:45, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Malaysian program information
With all due respect to Rillian, whom I really do respect and think is a great editor, I don't agree with the removal of the Malaysian information, nor with the terminology of "Spaceflight Participant" in this list, and here is why: This is a list of astronauts, and the positions they were selected for, and trained for, i.e. Mission Specialist, Pilot, etc. It is not a list of the position they held when they flew. Now obviously Malaysia is not training these people to be "Spaceflight participants", and there are many reliable sources that verify Shukor was a full-fledged astronaut, not a spaceflight participant, NASA used that term because Shukor did not specifically fly as an astronaut position for his flight, not that he wasn't an astronaut (think John Glenn's last flight). Also, for new classes, such as Canada's first class of astronauts, the X Prize, and other classes throughout this article, commentary is given to help the reader understand the item of interest. Malaysia's new program obviously deserves a mention, just as the others have had. I'm reinstating the section; Shukor is a fully trained astronaut, who was selected as an astronaut, trained as an astronaut, but just happened to fly not having any official astronaut duties. That doesn't make him any less of an astronaut, and for the purposes of this list, Spaceflight participant is an incorrect term. Ariel♥Gold 05:25, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- The structure of this page (which is titled List of Astronauts after all) is 1. Date + Group Name + Agency followed by 2. a list of people in that group followed on some instances by 3. commentary of notable items related to the group (e.g. everyone on this group flew in space at least twice). The only times we list titles/ranks/positions is when Item 2 (the list of people) is very long and some of the people where chosen to train for specific roles, e.g. Pilots versus Mission Specialists on the Space Shuttle. Regarding commentary, as this is a list and not an article per se, any commentary should be very brief and link to articles that provide the details. Since the Malaysian group all trained for the same position, no title is needed. I've made some edits that follow these practices and appreciate your comments. Rillian 13:25, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- Shukor is an astronaut by all definition of the word, so I'm not sure why you felt that your first statement had to say "it is a list of astronauts, after all". As for removing the fact that this was the first group selected by the Malaysian Astronaut group, see 1983 in this list, and the exact same type of thing was done with the first group of Canadian candidates, so I don't see how it is unreasonable to put a note saying this was the first group of candidates selected for the Malaysian space program. Correct me if I'm wrong, and please don't take this negatively, but you seem to have an issue with acknowledging the Malaysian astronaut program, and Shukor himself as astronauts (which is what the word Angkasawan means). I'm not biased one way or another, but I do think it does the country, program, and the participants a disservice to deny this recognition across multiple articles. ~*Shrug*~ Ariel♥Gold 13:42, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- My point about this being a list of astronauts is that everyone on the list is presumed to an astronaut. That's why the list doesn't repeat the word "Astronaut" in front of the groups of names -- it's redundant. As to the use of the word Angkasawan -- that's a Malaysian word for astronaut and this is the English Wikipedia. We don't use Raumfahrer with the German astronauts on this list.Rillian 13:46, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- Ahh, okay I see what you're saying, I was confused, lol. Sorry! Ariel♥Gold 13:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- Also, a lot of the commentary and citations you had added were defending the stance that the people in the Angkasawan group are real astronauts. This had been discussed extensively on the Angkasawan and Shukor Talk pages and addressed on those articles and I don't think it necessary to include that type of commentary on this list. Rillian 13:54, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- That's fine, I don't have either one of those pages on my watch list, so I'm not sure what discussions have been going on, but I know that there was a ton of edit warring over the issue, so I added the references so it was clear that he was an astronaut, even if he has not yet flown as one. No big deal, thanks Rillian! Ariel♥Gold 14:07, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- Also, a lot of the commentary and citations you had added were defending the stance that the people in the Angkasawan group are real astronauts. This had been discussed extensively on the Angkasawan and Shukor Talk pages and addressed on those articles and I don't think it necessary to include that type of commentary on this list. Rillian 13:54, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- Ahh, okay I see what you're saying, I was confused, lol. Sorry! Ariel♥Gold 13:52, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- My point about this being a list of astronauts is that everyone on the list is presumed to an astronaut. That's why the list doesn't repeat the word "Astronaut" in front of the groups of names -- it's redundant. As to the use of the word Angkasawan -- that's a Malaysian word for astronaut and this is the English Wikipedia. We don't use Raumfahrer with the German astronauts on this list.Rillian 13:46, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
- Shukor is an astronaut by all definition of the word, so I'm not sure why you felt that your first statement had to say "it is a list of astronauts, after all". As for removing the fact that this was the first group selected by the Malaysian Astronaut group, see 1983 in this list, and the exact same type of thing was done with the first group of Canadian candidates, so I don't see how it is unreasonable to put a note saying this was the first group of candidates selected for the Malaysian space program. Correct me if I'm wrong, and please don't take this negatively, but you seem to have an issue with acknowledging the Malaysian astronaut program, and Shukor himself as astronauts (which is what the word Angkasawan means). I'm not biased one way or another, but I do think it does the country, program, and the participants a disservice to deny this recognition across multiple articles. ~*Shrug*~ Ariel♥Gold 13:42, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
