Talk:List of U.S. state tartans

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 It is requested that an image of the various state tartans be included in this article to improve its quality, if possible.

[edit] What to do with this list

I've started to go through the various state insignia lists one state at a time. I've got an idea of how to improve each list except this one. Unless someone wants to take it on as a project to get non copyright violating, GFDL compliant images of all the tartans, I don't see the point to the list unless we have an WP:EL violating list of external links. I don't imagine we could get the images in using a fair use rationale, could we? Has anyone got any better ideas here? —Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 06:00, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

I was planning to do a bunch of research and provide citations for all of these, but I was having browser trouble that day and after a few hours of work I gave up. I'd like to try again this weekend. If the links are citations and all link to government sites, that's not going to be a violation of WP:EL, though I had planned to change to layout of the table so the links were in a References section in the bottom, so that ought to clear up any lingering doubt. I don't know much about images--the fair use regs baffle me--but it would be nice to have them if we can get 'em. Thanks for working on the insignia lists. If you have any questions about the Oregon ones, be sure to get in touch. Katr67 15:45, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I added a link to the information about the Texas Bluebonnet tartan on the Texas Scottish Heritage Society website. Hopefully that's official enough. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.161.247.11 (talk) 15:30, 28 March 2007 (UTC).
Positively we need citations for the tartans, but just having links to images of the tartans makes for a pretty non-informative article and makes comparison of the various tartans difficult. I'm hoping that someone more artistic than myself can reproduce images of the tartans similarly to the reproduction of the state flags. I've posted a request at Wikipedia:Requested pictures#Geography as well as adding the appropriate template to this page. —Elipongo (Talk|contribs) 10:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Government Images

Hi, I stumbled upon your photo request, and on that tangent, discovered that MY STATE HAS A TARTAN! And by that measure, let me just say that this is a very cool, very useful article.

While I do not have the resources to take pictures of all the official tartans in the US, it struck me kind of odd that we could not get good currently "free" images of them, and if not, it seems like fair-use would be a no-brainier. I mean, many of these are official state symbols passed by the state government.

So, to make a specific question, take this one: [1] found at [2]

Does work by the state library of North Carolina fall into the scope of government work covered by the PD-USGov? I did read somewhere that it was actually designed by a Scottish person, which could complicate things and prove me wrong, but I maintain the assertion that it would be silly for us not to be able to use it.

I'll be bold in a bit and try it, but it should work, right? If not, it'll give me another administrator to chew out. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 05:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Strike what I said about problems because the tartan was designed by someone other than a government worker for North Carolina, that's not the issue, we're looking for the copyright info for the picture not the item itself. The president I keep seeing over an over again is that people drab on for ever about the rights of the photographer, but completely don't bother with copyrights that pertain to the contents of pictures. And taking about presidents, if This image flies on Wikipedia, fear not, for we have nothing to worry about. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 06:37, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the government of the State of North Carolina is a different entity from the United States Federal Government. While the works of the Federal Government are in the Public Domain, the works of the various states typically are not. I really do appreciate your being bold and uploading/posting the image, however you should ask for the image to be speedily deleted since it is a copyright violation. What I figure might work is people taking photos of displays at their state houses or of marchers wearing the tartan during parades and such. With Independence day coming up, maybe some folks can get some good pix! —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 08:56, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Wow, so the government tag really won't work. It still seems ridiclous to me that we wouldn't be able to use it. Other tartans on Wikipedia are copyright by a company and use a short fair use rationale, see the above example, so I'm going to try using the fair-use tag. I could still be confused by the fair use of the pattern versus picture taking fair use, but the previous example doesn't mention anything about the picture taking. Granted, this could mean that either that upload was done incorrectly, or that the uploader in that case actually took the picture him/her self, but once again, that would leave me completely confused as to why there's not a release tag on it for that work. This is a perfect example of everything I'm having trouble swallowing in regards to Wikipedia copyright policies, so I appreciate you bearing with me in this manner. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 13:11, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I too have wondered whether fair use might apply for this list, see the discussion before this one. I thought then that the answer was no, but now that I've been following around and picking up the pieces from BetacommandBot and getting more knowledgeabe about Fair Use, I think we might be able to swing it... I'm going to go and ask at WP:AN/FURG and see what they think- if any article ever needed images, this is the one! —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 15:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Okay, the post is up. Here's the link if anyone's interested Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/FURG#List of U.S. state tartans. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 15:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Great! Thanks for your hard work, we'll get to the bottom of this. I see your points, and what people were saying earlier in this talk page, so I understand that it could go either way. But currently I still think there are many unanswered questions about it, and the important thing is that it was done the right way. You mentioned in your post on the admin noticeboard that we may need to include more text in the article to be sure that it the pictures are used to illustrate a subject. I don't consider this to be a big hurdle at all, and should be done just for the sake of improving the article. Look at my last edit and tell me if it seems to be productively working towards those means. -Theanphibian (talk • contribs) 03:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I think your edit could be the way to go. I've moved my question over to Wikipedia talk:Non-free content#List of U.S. state tartans because it was being ignored where I had first asked it... —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 05:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)