Talk:List of Jewish prayers and blessings

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Contents

[edit] Structure of page

This page is rather poorly structured. The alternative would be to include the integral text of havdalah, which would lead to significant overlap. Any ideas, opinions etc.? JFW | T@lk 09:22, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] VfD debate link

This article has been kept following this VFD debate. Sjakkalle (Check!) 09:15, 22 July 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Birkat ha-Mazon

The grace after meals [bentsch] is missing -- I think it's rather important.

It has its own article -- Birkat Hamazon -- so no need for more than a short mention and a link here. --Shirahadasha 23:11, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] {{Torah portion}}

{{Torah portion}} does not belong on this page; it's irrelevant (and too long btw).—msh210℠ 19:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Hi msh: (1) List of Jewish prayers and blessings and the weekly Torah reading of the Parsha (Torah portion) are all part of the weekly Torah readings on Monday and Thursday morning Shacharit services, as well as during the services on Shabbat. (2) The template {{Torah portion}} is at the bottom of the List of Jewish prayers and blessings article's page, so essentially it's part of the "See also" section which is a legitimate way of connecting related and connected topics on an article. (3) If a reader finds the {{Torah portion}} to be "too intrusive" then any reader is free to click "Hide" on the top right section of the template's heading which shrinks it to an unobtrusive one liner. Finally, (4) the {{Torah portion}} is presently diligently updated weekly by User:Dauster early each Sunday so that any readers may learn more about the weekly Parsha. User:Dauster summarizes each week's Parsha and adds some interesting graphics which surely adds life and color to a page that may gain the attention of readers who don't know much about this subject and may want to learn more. Please refer all further comments and discussions to one centralized location at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#Template: Torah portion Thank you. IZAK 06:46, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Many missing brachot

Birkat Hatorah is very important; I think it should definately be on this page. In addition, there are quite a number of other brachot that we make frequently, like birchot haroeh, birchot hanehenin, birchot hashachar and pesukei d'zimra; and many that we make less often like kiddush levana, bris millah, nisu'in, megilla, and nacheim, to name a few. I also agree that the whole page needs some major restructuring. --Geshmakster 18:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Complete services (as distinct from individual brachot) should probably have their own article or be part of Jewish services rather than belonging on this page. New articles on birchot hashachar, pesukei d'zimra, kiddush levana, etc. are needed and your creating and authoring even a short article on them would be very helpful. Some articles (e.g. Brit milah already exist under a different spelling. Shabbat Shalom, --Shirahadasha 21:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Concerning some articles, I feel that it is more useful to write new articles from an Orthodox-only point of view. The interference (no insult intended) of Reformism in these things is too difficult. --Daniel575 10:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Creating new articles with an Orthodox-only point of view (as opposed to ensuring that the Orthodox POV is accurately and proportionately represented) might be a problem given the WP:POV fork policy. See WP:NPOV. Have you considered using the wikimedia facilities to start an Orthodox-only wiki-based encyclopedia? That way all articles could be from an Orthodox-only POV. --Shirahadasha 16:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't think the Reform Movement has reworded any major prayers but the Amidah, other than perhaps using more "egalitarian" language. They just don't use the things; therefore, the Orthodox phrasing is the only phrasing in common use, unless the Conservative movement has changed the wording a bit, which again, would likely consist of rearranging some pronouns. If my assumptions are correct, then there would be no substitute to the Orthodox POV on how this prayer or that prayer is to be said. All that would have to be said is that the Reform and Conservative movements have made the text more gender-neutral, and that the Reform movement doesn't believe it is incumbent to say any of them. --75.110.153.157 20:10, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Transliteration

What looks more readable: Barukh atah Adonai, Elohaynu, melekh ha-olam, asher kid'shanu b'meetzvotav v'tzeevanu l’had’lik ner shel hanukah or Baruch atah Adonai, Eloheinu, melekh ha-olam, asher kideshanu b'mitzvotav vetzivanu lehadlik ner shel chanukah Tell me. --Daniel575 08:45, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The latter is definately more readable, but the former is the more common transliteration system, so it should be used. 75.110.153.157 12:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested Blessings

Figured I'd make a place for people submit the suggestions. Having a more complete list makes it easier to organize. I do commend y'all on the job you've done keeping this short and sweet the way it appears right now. After all, there's a whole Talmud related to Barachos!


strikeout = added to the article

italic = (should be its) own article

  • N'tilat Yadayim - add for when you wake up, and after you go to the bathroom
  • kiddush levana - sanctify the moon
  • brit milah
  • nisu'in
  • megillah - upon reading one of the five meggilot
  • nacheim
  • birchot haroeh
  • birchot hanehenin
  • birchot hashachar
  • pesukei d'zimra —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.203.175.175 (talk) 00:37, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

== " mean eternity (c.f. l'olam va'ed). In Rabbinic Hebrew "Olam" means universe. There is, however, no Biblical Hebrew word for universe. Universe is a Greek concept. In the Torah, there is "Shamayim Va'aretz" -- heavens and earth (i.e. celestial and terrestrial).

The assertion that Berachot are all composed in Biblical Hebrew is accepted by linguistic scholars, and is verifiable. Consider the mishna in berachot -- which indicates that on the "pri ha'ilan" we say "borea piree ha’aytz ". We do not say "borea piree ha'ilan". In Biblical Hebrew, "’aytz" means tree, so we make a beracha on the fruit of the tree. In Rabbinic Hebrew, the term "’aytz" began to mean wood, whereas the Aramaic word (found in Daniel) became "Ilan" -- to mean tree. The Rabbis said on the fruit of a tree (using their work Ilan), we say "creates the fruit of the tree" (using the biblical word ’aytz). We certainly do not make the beracha onthe fruit of the wood.

And thus, we should correct melekh ha‑olam to mean eternal King. --Gil 20:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

"Melekh olam" (as in Jeremiah 10:10) would mean eternal king. "Haolam" as a stand-alone adjective is not found in the Tanakh according to this search (except in Daniel, which is not exactly standard Biblical Hebrew). Additionally, what is your source that brachot are in Biblical Hebrew? The brachah "leishev basukkah," for one, is in Mishnaic Hebrew. --Eliyak T·C 14:48, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


Hi! The blessings unquestionably follow Biblical Hebrew grammar and sytax. However, this does not mean that Wikipedia should report their meaning as reflecting some sort of scholarly understanding of what the words meant in the time of the Bible. This is an article on contemporary Judaism. The prayers mean what the people praying them intend. Like much of contemporary Judaism, these blessings reached Judaism through the lens of Rabbinic teaching, and rabbinic thought heavily influences their contemporary meaning. As in many other areas of contemporary Judaism, it would be a grave mistake to assume that these prayers' apparent superficial similarity to Biblical languange as understood by secular Biblical scholarship should imply that that scholarship, rather than Jewish religious scholarship, is the most reliable source for Wikipedia's description of what contemporary Jewish religious prayers and practices mean to those who pray and do them. I would suggest relying on sources rather than attempting our own translation. Artscroll's translation is probably the de facto standard Orthodox one at least in the United States. One could provide multiple translations or alternatives in parenthesis where the Conservative Sim Shalom or Reform Gates of Prayer translations differ. Best, --Shirahadasha 01:20, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
i thought rabbi habers tapes were a great explanation of the jewish prayers i think his site is www.torahlab.org the series is titled new heights in jewish prayer —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshman62 (talk • contribs) 14:33, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Informal greetings

The intro had promised that the article would discuss both liturgical blessings and informal greetings like mazel tov. I removed the reference to informal greetings intro because right now the article doesn't have any, and the intro shouldn't promise what the article doesn't have. If editors would like to add information about informal greetings like mazel tov, shekoach, shalom, baruch hashem, etc., I think this would be a great idea and would suggest doing so in another article called e.g. Jewish greetings or similar. Best, --Shirahadasha 01:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)