Talk:List of British ordnance terms

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I have also heard the QF (quick firing) term refer to a gun where the breech stays open after run back. Especially in tank guns such as the 17 and 20 pounder QFs used in Sherman Fireflies and early Centurions. Although all tank guns do this now, in some older weapons this was not the case, so the gunner had to open the breech before loading, and avoiding this extra act saved time, hence "quick firing"

John Begg

[edit] DP

I can't find a British naval DP gun, as far as I know this is an American term. Regardless, it would have been the mounting that recieved this designation (guns were either BL or QF), and as far as I know, HA/LA was used instead of DP, and only in the Mounting Mark XIX for the 4 inch gun Mark XVI. Emoscopes Talk 13:45, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Mea culpa. Although: I'm looking at a description of the Dido class cruiser in "Jane's Warships of World War II", a pocket volume published 1996 by Harper Collins, Glasgow, UK. It says on p 138: "the Didos were given ... twin 5.25-in dual-purpose (DP) weapons." This isn't a technical description but it does refer to an RN ship class. There's my problem: is this useful list restricted only to technically accurate British expressions or to expressions used commonly to describe British weaponry (I assume this would include Bofors and Oerlikon kit used on RN ships).
FYI: Whitley's "Cruisers of World War II", p112, also describes the Dido guns as "dual-purpose" and "The 5.25 gun was the QF Mk I version ... carried in twin turrets Mk II instead of the ... Mk I (as in the King George V class) ...". In "The World Encyclopedia of Battleships", published 2005 by Hermes House, London, the KGV secondary armament is described as "... a new 130mm/5.25 in dual-purpose gun mounted in eight power-operated turrets ..."
A thought: is there an equivalent US list of terms and should we have a single comprehensive list? Folks at 137 19:46, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
These are both author's terms, rather than official terminology, the term DP / dual purpose is widely used in the literature but is an Americanism. On this page, and the page Dual purpose gun, it is mentioned that HA/LA is the distinctive British version of this term. It is my understanding (well, let it be said, I took it for granted :-) ) that this list is for official terms, and perhaps unofficial one's exclusive to British service. If you agree with this, perhaps we could reword the title of the page to make this more clear. Also, I think it should be moved to List of British ordnance terms Emoscopes Talk 20:33, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
If that's the scope, then fair enough. My only quibble would be that an article/ list as useful as this should be as inclusive as possible. The usage of "DP", for example, may well be an American expression used incorrectly by authors - but it is used. My suggestion would be to include such "out of scope" expressions and explain the situation - or create a comprehensive list. If "Jane's" or Whitley (both authoritative and used as reference sources) use an expression then it's likely to be widely borrowed - correct or not. Query - are all the terms in the list in current use or do they come from particular periods? Folks at 137 21:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
There is nothing incorrect in the term, these are dual-purpose guns by definition and I think nearly every authoratative author refers to them as such, however it is my opinion that this is a retrospective or non-British application of a term that has come universally into use. My feeling is that on a page called British ordnance terms I think we should limit ourselves to exclusively British terminology, otherwise we might as well just relocate it to Ordnance terms. That's not to say we shouldn't mention it, I just think we should do so under the HA/LA entry, as this was the official version. In answer to your question, all these terms are now defunct as far as I know. I think the utility of this list is to link to such abbreviations from ship articles, i.e. when we mention a weapon (e.g BL 15 inch Mark 1), it's nice to be able to pipe in a link from BL so we don't have to explain it every time. Emoscopes Talk 13:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] QF?

I read that "quick firing" always meant gun fitted with on carriage recoil buffer and springs, so that the gun didn't need to be re-aimed after firing ? But the definition on the page would suggest that it refers just to the use of semi-fixed and fixed ammunition. The source that I am reading is not very definitive (Osprey British Artillery 1914-19). Does someone have a better source that says more "officially" what the exact definition is? Megapixie (talk) 06:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

The original, and "general" meaning of the Term "Quick Firing" indeed served to identify modern artillery with proper recoil systems, which removed the need to relay the gun between rounds and hence increased the rate of fire. This page, as the title suggests, refers to official British usage of ordnance terms. In British use, most modern Quick Firing guns used brass cartridge cases to load the charge, and because the cartridge case sealed the breech, removing this duty from the breech, new faster-operating breech mechanisms became possible. British ordnance terminology then took on the term QF to describe any breech which used the cartridge case to seal it : to provide obturation. Breeches which used bag charges rather than cartridge cases still needed to provide the obturation themselves, usually via a "mushroom" and interrupted screw. These breeches continued to be labelled BL. Hence in British use, QF does not really mean Quick Firing, it is just a term - some BL guns are operated at high rates of fire by trained crews.

Source : Ian Hogg, Britain Artillery Weapons & Ammunition 1914-1918. (& any other serious author). Rcbutcher (talk) 08:41, 26 December 2007 (UTC)