Talk:List of British Jewish entertainers

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What's the point of this page? What purpose does it serve? People arguing about whether george michael or orlando bloom are jewish or not. Why is that anyone's business? They either are or they're not and it has no relevance to anything. I really don't think there's any reason for such a pointless page to exist. I only found myself here when I saw a link to it on the Joss Stone page and wondered WTF??



[edit] What's the point of this page?

What purpose does it serve? People arguing about whether george michael or orlando bloom are jewish or not. Why is that anyone's business? They either are or they're not and it has no relevance to anything. I really don't think there's any reason for such a pointless page to exist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.155.223.170 (talk) 09:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Orlando Bloom

I think we need to remove Orlando Bloom. His surname comes from his stepfather, he has no Jewish ancestry, and has never practiced Judaism (he's currently a Buddhist). See his Wiki article for more details. Indisciplined 20:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

How do we know that he has no Jewish ancestry? I've seen nothing on his (biological) father's ancestry at all. In any case, the sourced cited, The Jewish Chronicle, refers to him as Jewish, which passes the criteria at the top of Talk:List of British Jews Mad Jack 05:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
How old is the Jewish Chroinicle source quoted? It may now be out of date considering the recent revelations about Bloom's parentage. Indisciplined 18:16, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Well, the citation says September 15, 2006 - fairly recent. Mad Jack 18:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
It's an interesting point. I'm not sure that this source is factually correct given the information about Bloom's parentage that has now come into the public domain. If the definitions used for the list become this broad, it's in real danger of becoming meaningless. Do we have any other sources that could clear the issue up? Indisciplined 18:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the only criteria we have (and should have) is listed on the top of Talk:List of British Jews. Which is that we have a reliable source that explicitly says someone is Jewish (and British), as opposed to their father, mother, etc. Mad Jack 18:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Evan if the source quote might be factually incorrect? Sounds like a hostage to fortune. Indisciplined 18:47, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
But how do we know if it's factually incorrect? Besides, WP:V means verifiability, not truth, so I guess all of Wikipedia is technically a "hostage to fortune" in one sense. Mad Jack 19:22, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with indisciplined. that source is assuming Bloom's of the same religion as his stepfather but we have no proof of that. even so "celebrity jews in the news" doesn't sound very reliable. we don't know what his biological father was. (Unsigned statement by User:Linestouch)

We do know that the Jewish Chronicle, one of the World's oldest national newspapers, regards him as Jewish. Nobody has ever produced a source that says he isn't Jewish, so it violates WP:NOR to speculate about what religion his father is.--20.138.246.89 15:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

there is doubt being expressed if this be true then maybe we can find some other place supporting this no??? i know what the jewish chronicle is. the same article also mentions kate bosworth and uma thurman in the article as orlando bloom. are they jewish now too??? this is possibly wrong information so i am removing it until it is known for certain. lines touch (how do you sign?)

i know that jewish chronicle implies orlando bloom is jewish but if there is so much doubt to support this conclusion, isn't that a problem? like indiscplined said before, this article may have been made before information leaked that orlando bloom's famous jewish father wasn't his real father, and therefore jewish chronicle is reporting un-updated info. it is better to leave orlando bloom off until it can be 100% confirmed, perhaps by orlando himself, that he is jewish. there is no harm is having this information removed. the orlando bloom article doesnt even mention he is jewish so it is not very publicized info if it is true. LINESTOUCH

We have a recent citation - as noted above, September 15, 2006. It is absurd to say that we should delete sourced information from a reliable source because it might not be up to date. bring a source that says that he isn't Jewish and we can discuss. And George Michael says that his mother was Jewish - it violates WP:NOR to deny this.--20.138.246.89 10:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

i took your advice and read RS, NOR, and V. i also found NPOV and BLP and found:

We must get the article right.[1] Be very firm about high quality references, particularly about details of personal lives. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material — whether negative, positive, or just highly questionable — about living persons should be removed immediately and without discussion from Wikipedia articles[2]

i am following the rules and removing orlando bloom based on that

please read George Michael autobiography "Bare" he says his grandmother was from a jewish family, not his mother. there is no source that says orlando bloom isnt jewish because there is no source on his heritage at all. this is why this should be removed LINESTOUCH

"Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material" - firstly, a citation from an established national newspaper is not a poor source. Secondly, there is nothing contentious here. As for George Michael, thete is a quote: "Michael explained that his mom, Lesley, and her family were Jewish, but felt a need to hide it."--Brownlee 22:21, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

are you saying a reporter's word is better than george michael's? and yes, this is contentious material. nobody has ever shown a statement from orlando bloom where he says he is jewish.

George Michael says explicitly that his mother was Jewish. And since when do you need a statement from the person himself about his ethnicity?--R613vlu 13:02, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

no, george michael says explicitly his grandmother was of jewish descent. please read his biography entitled "Bare." it goes into great detail. please write what the man says not what someone else says he said. why are there no other places that say orlando bloom is jewish? how come i can find many places that say woody allen is jewish but none that say orlando bloom is?? isn't it possible that this is a mistake and by including it here we are perpetuating the mistake?? 06:34, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

He has also described his mother as Jewish. It is original research to go further than that. As for Orlando Bloom, Wikipedia reports verifiable facts, not speculation.--Brownlee 18:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

according to what I read, original research refers to information that is not cited by sources. that george michael's grandmother was jewish, and not his mother, is supported by his autobiography. so you apparently don't know what you're talking about. as for orlando bloom, i see no source that says he is jewish. would you please provide one? the source that is next to his name right now also implies uma thurman and kate bosworth are jewish. why are they not on jewish lists too then? Linestouch

[edit] Barry Cryer

The only proof given that he's supposedly Jewish is that he was involved in a documentary about Jewish comedians. He's *worked* with a lot of Jewish comedians! I've never seen him say anything about his ancestry or religion, other than that his father was a Mason (from his autobiography). So I'd recommend taking him off the list unless there's more I don't know about.

Bangdrum 04:24, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Done Mad Jack 08:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)