Talk:Line of succession to the French throne (Legitimist)
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[edit] Titulature of cadets
- Is not the Castroist Duke of Calabria a Frenchman in the same way as is the Spanish Duke of Noto (and the Duc d'Anjou, for that matter) -- by right of maternal heritage? On what grounds are the Castro Bourbon-Sicilians not accorded their titles of pretence while the Spanish Bourbon-Sicilians are? Lethiere 04:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- The title "Duke of Castro" is used by Ferdinando as a title of pretence (i.e. instead of a style as monarch), just like "Duke of Calabria" is used by the Infante Carlos. The duc d'Anjou recognises the Infante Carlos as Duke of Calabria, but not Ferdinando as Duke of Castro. Noel S McFerran 04:16, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- When did prince du sang royal de France convert from being a rank in the heirarchy of the French monarchy (between petit-fils de France and prince légitimé du sang royal) and become a title in the heirarchy of the ancien régime? Is there evidence that French legitimist pretenders have actually used it in this fashion? Lethiere 04:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- Yes. Look at Etat present de la Maison de Bourbon which is virtually an official publication of the duc d'Anjou. Noel S McFerran 04:16, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] King Juan Carlos
Should King Juan Carlos of Spain be listed here too? Morhange 06:16, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not sure why not. The legitimists consider him to be first in line of succession. He, of course, does not. But the same can be said for other "pretenders" who make no claims for themselves, but merely have claims made for them by their adherents. Noel S McFerran 11:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
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- King Juan Carlos and Prince Philip of Spain are not pretenders to the French throne because they recognise the French Republic with his president and they considere Sarkozy like the 1st men of France. --Hinzel 01:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Orleans-Braganza
In the Etat present de la maison de Bourbon the title "prince" is not given to the members of the Petropolis branch of the House of Orleans-Braganza or to the children of those princes of the Vassouras branch who have renounced their Brazilian rights. The practice on this page has been to list people by the titles they are called by legitimists (e.g. the man generally called "comte de Paris, duc de France" is here called "Henri, Duke of Orleans"). Noel S McFerran (talk) 19:24, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the two sons of Prince Eudes and Mercedes Neves da Rocha who have a civil marriage union, but are not married according to the rites of the Catholic Church (Prince Eudes being married canonically to Ana Maria de Moraes e Barros). Eudo junior and Guy are canonically illegitimate; they are not even mentioned in the Etat present de la maison de Bourbon. Noel S McFerran (talk) 19:31, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
- Civil marriage, civil divorce, civil remarriage, is that OK? Or only Catholic marriage is valid? Xantios (talk) 20:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Descendants du Prince Gaëtan de Bourbon-Siciles (1917-1984)
Les descendants du Prince Gaëtan de Bourbon-Siciles n'entrent pas, d'après certains généalogistes et spécialistes de la "question capétienne", dans la liste des membres de la Maison de Bourbon, aptes à succéder au Trône de France, dans le cadre d'une éventuelle restauration de la monarchie en France. Ses enfants (Adrian, Gregory) et petits-enfants (Philippe, Christian et Raymond) sont issus de son mariage civil sans mariage religieux avec Miss Olivia Yarrow, le 16 février 1946.
http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/2sicilies.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.57.50.97 (talk) 19:02, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
- Gaëtan's union with Olivia Yarrow and the children of that union are mentioned in the (quasi-official) Etat present de la maison de Bourbon. Usually that work does not list civil unions. Noel S McFerran (talk) 21:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Thank you Noel for this information.
[edit] Renunciation
I know that Legitimists don't recognize renunciations "made under duress", but what about people who voluntarily renounce? What would happen if everyone in front of the Orleanist pretender willingly renounced for the sake of the monarchy so that there would be only 1 pretender? Emperor001 (talk) 17:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
- Well, you answered your own question as to if renunciations were valid, yes, there would be one pretender. Everyone who is a member of the Houses of Bourbon (proper), Bourbon-Spain, Bourbon-Parma, Bourbon-Naples-Sicily and Bourbon-Nassau would have to be dead or renounce. I don't believe, however, that it is possible to renounce membership in the House of France except via treaty, as was attempted to exclude the Spanish branch. Had it been the case, Philip V of Spain would have simply just renounced, no? Charles 19:04, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
- The traditional laws of France (like those of many other European nations) do not allow for the renunciation of a future inheritance. One can only renounce once one has actually succeeded. For the current duc d'Orleans (i.e. "comte de Paris, duc de France") to become the legitimist claimant, it would be necessary for Louis Alphonse to renounce, then Juan Carlos, then Felipe, and then in order some seventy other princes. It's not particularly likely! Noel S McFerran (talk) 13:08, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] No.14
I think that thsi goes wrong at no. 14 - either the date of birth is wrong or I don't know of this child. If the former do you mean to refer to the elder brother of no 15 or his father. The latter makes sense but I wasn't aware that his elder brother had died.
James —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.152.238.35 (talk) 17:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
