Talk:Lindsay Hawker

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on April 21, 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep.
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[edit] Why?

The person who placed the tag on the article needs to explain why s/he believes the article should be deleted. Exploding Boy 06:24, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes i know it seems strange. But their is always editor kings here who thinks their opinion ar ethe only who matter.--Matrix17 10:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Family opinion

A family expressing devastation at the death of a young woman is not really that notable at all. Sorry. This is being objective. Being subjective would to give undue weight to this statement. That said, second wording was better. Matrix17, please do not take actions of other editors personally.--ZayZayEM 10:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

agreed Sparkzilla 10:38, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Like you do you mean? defending your opinion here isnt exactly what a talk page is for.Personal attacks on other people isnt whats it for anyway.Keep that in mind.--Matrix17 10:47, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Obvious reactions by next of kin or close family is certainly not notable or encyclopedic. ZayZayEM didn't defend his opinion as such, just stating that the quality needs to be maintained in shorter and swiftly developing articles as this, as well. Where's the personal attack, did I miss something? --Strangnet 10:53, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Good editing on the page anyway stranget ,even do you always have the same sarcastic way.Not good for an editor.That Zayzayman removed important external links seems to just have passed you by.:)--Matrix17 10:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Matrix17, assume good faith and stop being so hostile. Mackan 18:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Dont tell me that i can see on your talk page that you arent exactly a role model in the thin you just wrote mackan--Matrix17 20:04, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] WikiJapan?

Is there any news from wiki in japan? 58.187.21.76 12:25, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Appears not. Maybe its a bit controversial to supply details about ongoing cases--ZayZayEM 02:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
It is there now. Anyway, there is a policy in Japanese wikipedia to not rash to make an ongoing case a wiki-article unless at the very least the suspect had been caught or likely to be, and is waiting for a trial. It probably seems too strict compared to English wikipedia, but there had been a string of law cases against media where the suspect's life was completely reported, then it turned out that he was an innocent person. In these cases, the compensation won were huge even for an average working person and there is a good chance that if wikipedia was accused, it will lose. So a caution is observed.
Also, controversal cases are so few each year that it is actually feasible (editing wise, only like few thousands/year) to record all murder, rape, and armed robbery cases that occurred in Japan. This, however, would make Japanese wikipedia a crime encyclopedia, which is not the aim of wikipedia project.--Revth 08:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Please note that Wikis cannot be used as sources in Wikipedia. Sparkzilla 06:35, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Awkward

Hawker's naked body was found buried in a sand-filled bathtub on the apartment's balcony...

It says "the apartment" before any description is given, and before Ichihashi is even mentioned. The whole section needs to be reordered to make proper sense.

Done Sparkzilla 05:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, the Chiba police source has a description of Ishihashi, could it be of any use?

Approximately 180cm tall
Slim build
Slender face
Medium length hair [black is implied, though not explicit]

It pretty much describes any tall Japanese person, but at least it's all reliable information, and there's no picture. 125.205.59.205 05:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the description is useful as it describes most of the Japanese population ;) BTW, a picture of the suspect Ichihashi was released by police. Sparkzilla 05:48, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
A copy of the picture is available here. I'm not sure how to write a fair use rationale for it, though, so I'll leave it to someone else if they think it's worth including. JulesH 08:48, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Questions for Clarification

It says her body was completely naked. The one thing that comes to mind at this point is that the Japanese have at least in many things that I have read have always been so adverse to sex crimes (not saying this was one). Even deviants/criminals have mostly stayed away from that kind of M.O. Is this a sign of a flux in that kind of mindset. Also, someone let me know if they have read similar things please

Amaraiel 06:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Are you asking if it's unusual to have a sex crime in Japan?--ZayZayEM 15:02, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
So far as I have heard it is. (Time Out Tokyo by TimeOut) --Amaraiel 15:23, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Don't have that book. But from personal experience, anectdotal evidence, watching Japanese news, and I'm happy to ass-u-me that statistics will back me up that Japanese sex crimes are not a rare occurance. Japanese board of tourism is a pretty successful at it's job. I wish I could say the same for the police (joking, don't hurt me).--ZayZayEM 14:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
BTW my personal experience pertains to stories/news of paedophile-murder-abductions, "coercision" by pop stars, teachers and *sempai*; co-worker's experiencing pretty rampant [sexual harassment seku-hara], including strange old guys groping them in shopping aisles. I think Japanese fiction (manga, soaps, sit-coms and oprah-style shows really show how lax attitudes to things such as *coercion* and sexual assault/harassment is in Japan ::: thankfully outrage at the killing of kids exists - though Japan likes to blame it on foreign elements).--ZayZayEM 14:37, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Private student

The suspect was a private student of the victim. This was widely reported in the Japanese media. He somehow lured her from the cafe where they met to his apartment (Japanese police discovered a video of them in the cafe, and stills were shown in the Japanese media). One guess is that she was looking for an apartment, and he might have offered to rent his condo to her. I added the info about the student/teacher relationship to the article some time ago, but someone deleted it. Don't you think the fact that they had a student/teacher relationship is important for people trying to understand this crime? Here is a link to a typical article: [1]

  • Use sources and put it back in--ZayZayEM 05:05, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wanted Poster

It looks like a photoshop hackjob by activist group www.lindsayhawker.com . It is not an official poster (in the sense of being made by any law enforcement agency or governmental agency).

Is it an appropriate image to use on this page? Does it add to understanding of the issue? Is it spam?


I am also rather skeptical of its classification of fair-use for non-free images.--ZayZayEM (talk) 16:43, 1 March 2008 (UTC)