Talk:Lifeguard

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Contents 1 Article Criticisms 2 Jeff Ellis 3 History 4 RC lifeguarding in Canada 5 Proposal 6 Boy Scouting

[edit] Article Criticisms

this page has ALOT of problems, POV, directory listing, plain old inaccurate information. I'm not even sure where to begin. A few proposals: * split into lifeguard (very generic) and make lifeguard(ocean) (maybe)

• link to ILS and over reaching national organizations only, don't like your club's directory listing to the page. These need to be removed. The page is too long already!
• No link to rip current. This must have been written by someone unfamiliar with rip currents, as not every current is an emergency.
• anyone notice there is no article on RESCUE BUOY ????? that's our meat and potatoes

Well, lets hear it 71.200.92.220 01:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

• Wow, this page has been DESTROYED in the year since i have last seen it. I'm tagging this for major rewrite/clean-up. Why was the link to the british soldier removed. This is an encyclopedia, not a comprehensive site for your particular brand of lifeguard. If you do not know what this means, do not edit the page 71.200.92.220 00:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jeff Ellis

someone called Jeff Ellis keeps using this page to promote themselves and their website.

This is so stupid. the person insisting on keeping jeff ellis in is *NOT* concerned with education and information but purely and simply marketing their company.

Has anyone checked if the IP address is from the commercial company???

I agree the JE content reads like a marketing flyer.

Jeff, please leave this site alone. JE is just another commercial training company

tru tru, this is not the yellowpages A ctually, Jeff Ellis and Associates is a lifeguard training company in the US. On the other hand, you may be talking about someone using that name to spam... + I agree the JE content reads like a marketing flyer. Why don't we put the iceream man from bondi beach there as well?

No, the information on Jeff Ellis is legit. Please leave it; it is relavent and accurate.

<unsigned expletive removed - 71.200.92.220 02:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC) > the JE content reads like a marketing flyer. Why don't we put the iceream man from bondi beach there as well? Jeff Ellis & Associates is the largest trainer of waterpark lifeguards (and has thousands of pool guards too) in the United States. That makes it legit. Training for lifeguards in the US is done commerically; hence the layout and look oFAGf the site. Regardless of the site's look and feel, E&A has done alot to improve the training lifeguards receive in the US (first to introduce AEDs to the indoor aquatic environment, first to switch to all-equipment-based rescues, and many others). Some folks might think inclusion of E&A is here to promote them. It's not. E&A does alot in the field of lifeguarding, both in the US and abroad. The fact that it's a commercial company is just how the capitalist world works. It's legit - deal with it.

Big deal. By your logic, entries under 'Steel' would have a precis on BHP (the largest steel producer in the world) and Car would have Toyota and Ford ... but they don't. This is not the yellow pages. If you really want to contribute put 'in the US there is no government organisation to train lifeguards - it is done commercially'.

Actually "steel" does have descriptions and links to all of the major steel producers, including BHP (under "Steel Producers," a separate article linked to by the "steel" article). And "car" has links and such to GM, Toyota, and Ford (near the bottom, under "Current Production"). That information, as the info on ARC, E&A, and the YMCA, is there because it is relevant to understanding how these concepts work in the modern world. I've re-added the disputed paragraph. If you delete it again, I'll put it up for arbitration, as per the recommended Wikipedia course of action. I've looked at recent actions like that which center on similar disagreements and those decisions support my point-of-view. Lifeguarding is a commerical entity in the US. Descriptions and links to those commerical entities is vital to understanding that, just like links to Toyota and such are relevant to understanding cars.

wow, someone removed the discussion leaving only one viewpoint. that's a new low.

   * Does no-one know how to use wikipedia here? It's not hard to indent or sign your comments. (195.92.168.168 11:25, 16 July 2006 (UTC))

I posted the Jeff Ellis bit. I am a EA Guard at a Six Flags park, and i felt that it would be credible info to put up here. As someone here before me said, ellis has done a lot to improve the industry, and I dont really understand why it was taken down(shot down is more like it) If you(whoever deleted the content) would do some research on the topic that youre editing, and not just kill info that someone puts up here, It would be appreciated. Nathanhillinbl 02:53, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Wow, looks like ellis has been removed many times before, i see why my bit was removed, but it was all factual, and as a new wikipedian(is that a word), i dont understand why. Nathanhillinbl 03:08, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Jeff Ellis is a commercial entity. As a result, its website won't be listed here. A similarity is that, on the wikipedia article for car, there is no link to the toyota website. I think an article about the jeff ellis corporation or whatever might be acceptable, if proper sources were cited etc. SECProto 23:48, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

+1 Benjad 02:38, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Isn't the YMCA a commercial entity too, thus shouldnt be listed here either? Nathanhillinbl 15:12, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

YMCA is a non-profit entity. Ellis is for profit. Benjad 02:39, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Also the last 2 external links are commercial entitys, which shouldnt be listed here if the guidelines set by the above people are in effect. Nathanhillinbl 05:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

The second paragraph of this article states, "The modern lifeguard profession originated in Australia in 1906." With great respect to my Australian friends, this is a very Australia-centric point of view. In reality, the first instance of professional (i.e. paid) beach lifeguarding (of which I am aware) was in the USA in Atlantic City, New Jersey, in 1892. There were a variety of reasons for this first beach patrol to be initiated, but the key issues were drowning deaths due to rip currents and commerce associated with one of the first beach resorts. Shortly thereafter a number of other similar services were established. Australian lifesaving emerged as a volunteer (rather than paid) effort in 1906 after laws prohibiting surf swimming were eased. In the US, what emerged was a paid beach lifeguard system, with lifeguards typically employed by local government. What emerged in Australia was a primarily volunteer effort, overseen by local clubs and, ultimately, Surf Life Saving Australia. Today lifeguards (or beach inspectors) paid by local government patrol Australian beaches, as do thousands of volunteers. There is a mostly respectful symbiosis. It is important to note, as well, that beach lifesaving emerged throughout the world, not just in these two countries. When I have the opportunity, I will endeavor to update this article. Meantime I would refer those with an interest to Open Water Lifesaving, The United States Lifesaving Association Manual (Chapter I is the history section) and Between the Flags: One Hundred Years of Australian Surf Lifesaving (which should be available in March 2007).Bcbrewster 05:27, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

"The second paragraph of this article states, "The modern lifeguard profession originated in Australia in 1906." With great respect to my Australian friends, this is a very Australia-centric point of view. In reality, the first instance of professional (i.e. paid) beach lifeguarding (of which I am aware) was in the USA in Atlantic City, New Jersey, in 1892."

Do you have references for Atlantic City? My understanding that was George Freeth - born 1883 is broadly credited as the first lifeguard in the US. He would have been a little young to have been a lifeguard in Atlantic City at age nine. In fact he was Hawaiian and lived in California

[edit] RC lifeguarding in Canada

So far as I'm aware, the RC program isn't recognized by law anywhere in Canada. There is talk of it being developed and introduced, specifically in Atlantic Canada, but I don't think that's occurred yet. To the extent that it is used, its basically staff training for waterparks or wave pools, and all lifeguards would be NLS-certified in addition. I'll leave it for now, but that section is misleading or incorrect, so far as I'm aware. I'll change it in a bit unless someone proves me wrong. Mike.lifeguard 16:04, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Done Mike.lifeguard 02:37, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmmmm thats what I thinks too Doesn't it say on the Health act that YMCA, RC, Bronze Cross and NLS were all fair game for lifeguarding? and I thought RC and YMCA don't exist anymoreDrunkenforest (talk) 22:14, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal

[edit] Boy Scouting

are boy scout life guards not accepted nationwide? I know that you can be trained as a boy scout lifeguard nationwide so is that not to be considered nationwide training.

that is a great point. my understanding is that the BSA is an authorized provider of the Red Cross lifeguarding program http://www.redcross.org/news/hs/firstaid/030212scouts.html