Talk:Leonardo da Vinci's personal life

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[edit] Dispute tag added

At least one of the editors for this article has an established Wikipedia history of adding unsubstantiated rumors of pederasty to biographies and then passing them off as "fact" (the editor apparently has made it his Wikipedia mission to insert the topic of pederasty to Wikipedia articles of all kinds). This link pretty much puts the lie to much of the article's current "information". This article should probably be nominated for deletion, as its sources are extremely suspect. J.R. Hercules 06:24, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for lowering the discourse to the level of "The People's Almanac." And for the personal compliments, of course. If you could bring some more serious materials to the discussion perhaps we could include them into the article. I will not speculate on your own motives, it should be clear why. Haiduc 06:50, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
I want to concur with user J.R. Hercules. I have pointed out that Haiduc added the Pederasty labels to Francesco Melzi. The evidence for this is based a line of text. I can assure you that if you look at the letters of Giuseppe Maria Crespi to his patron in Florence, and others trying to ingratiate themselves with patrons in that time, you would see the flourishes of words which Melzi addressed to Leonardo. There is no, I repeat, no evidence that Leonardo and Melzi had a pederastic relationship. This is not worth discussing. I happen to believe that there is contemporary evidence that Leonardo was accused of homosexuality as a young man. If someone feels this is of value to state with regards to Salaino, and can work out the difference in age, so be it. I doubt there is any conclusive dating to when the relationship between Salaino and Leonardo became carnal, thus I wouldn't jump to the notion that it was pederasty.

I vote this article for deletion. I strongly insist that the statements of pederasty be excised from the text of the entry for Leonardo. CARAVAGGISTI 23:13, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hanging blinking paragraph, again!

I really hate it when someone deletes a paragrph or sentence and leaves the dependent sentence with nothing to refer to.

If you are going to remove the quotation from Leonardo concerning procreation then please remove the statement of Freud's opinion that is based on that quotation otherwise the latter makes no sense

This type of sloppy editting really annoys me!

What would be a really good and helpful idea would be if the person looks for the source instead of just deleting a quotation from the man himself and replacing it with an opinion.

The author's opinion is a valid one to quote. But it is not top line intro stuff.

--Amandajm 23:14, 28 February 2007 (UTC).


[edit] Can't do that!!

I have just discovered that a large amount of info re Salai and Melzi has been lifted directly from [1].

That is really not on! Thinking it was written by a wiki editor, I've chopped it about a bit, without realise it was someone's non-wiki work!

O damn! it's gunna hafta be entirely rewritten! Need coffee! --Amandajm 08:15, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] OK!

Having looked back through the history of Leonardo da Vinci I have concluded that the Coppens at [2] is quoting Wiki rather than the other way around, which is legitimate.

--Amandajm 09:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Novel

Your structuring of interpretations of his love life seems to have little to do with either history or Leonardo. What led you to set it up that way? Haiduc 11:05, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, your rearrangement is an improvement.

--Amandajm 07:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ambidexterity?

While this finding is a traditional one, recent scholarship [3] raises questions. In any event, this alone suggests material for a more thorough investigation of the matter. JNW 08:50, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Seems that the traditional designation is primarily that of southpaw. JNW 01:01, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contradicting reports in Wikipedia - to whom did Leonardo give or sell the Mona Lisa?

In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci%27s_personal_life#Salaino it is reported that Leonardo bequeathed the Mona Lisa to il Salaino, his servant and companion, who listed the painting in his own will. However in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa#Artist_and_early_history it is reported that King Francois I bought the painting for 4,000 ecus.

Both can't be right, and I don't know which is. Anyone able to provide a definite reference?

Dermod (talk) 09:16, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The association with Salai is recent

"Aside from the riddle of the smile, it's the mystery of Mona Lisa's identity that has inspired amateur art detectives all over the world. After centuries of uncertainty, a vitally important document has recently come to light in the Milan State Archive. It's a probate document listing the possessions of Leonardo's life-long companion, Salai, "the little devil", who was murdered in 1525. It includes a painting valued at 505 lire, which was a small fortune in those days. So it must have been a masterpiece, almost certainly left to Salai by Leonardo himself.
It's called La Gioconda, which means "the smiling one", but it's also a pun on the married name of a Florentine woman called Lisa Gherardini. She was the third wife of a prosperous silk merchant, Francesco del Gioconda, and they almost certainly met Leonardo through their patronage of Santa Annunziata, the local Servite monastery."

This article unfortunately does not name the person who did the detective work and made the discovery. An English art historian searched through a great many documents and then found Salai's will, and found the listing of a portrait value at an uncommonly high amount. Then she observed a jotting in the margin saying that the painting was of Mona or Donna (can't remember which but it was Mrs or Lady) Gioconda. This is the first time that it has been confirmed that her name actually was Madam Gioconda, even though the Italians have always referred to her as "La Gioconda" (the joking one). It's typical of Leonardo thhat in painting her he played with her nname by giving her a smile, very unusual in the painitng of the day. I saw the woman who made the discovery interviewed in a documentary. I think that she is the "Rona Goffen, professor of art history at Ruttgers University" referred to in the article, but not actually creditted with the discovery. The article was written by Nick Rossiter, who made the TV show.

And really, the woman who made the discovery was so humble about it that she never said "I did this and I did that..." She spoke all the time in the second person. What she said was something like "There you are, in the library spending days and days pouring through old documents in the hope that you might get a clue. And suddenly, there it is, right before your eyes.... " She was just so elated that her rather earnest studious spectacled face looked just about as radiant as the Mona Lisa herself.

Telegraph UK, Arts Amandajm (talk) 10:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)