Talk:Lebkuchen

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[edit] Requested move

Lovely to see this entry, but just occurred to me that Lebkuchen is plural, and in accordance with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (plurals) it really ought to be called Lebkuche. Compare the article on Cookies - which of course redirects to Cookie.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Cnbrb (talk • contribs)

I'm not sure that's correct. I do have some knowledge of German, so I see where you're coming from, but this seems to be a singular form (and for some reason, masculine: der Lebkuchen). The article in the German Wikipedia is also at Lebkuchen and the pictures are labeled Lebkuchen even when there's only one. There are less than 5K Ghits for "Lebkuche" but more than 1 million for "Lebkuchen", which is approximately the same ratio as some common misspellings in English. Maybe it's an evolved shortening of kuche plus the diminutive? Anyway, I think I have to oppose this move unless anyone else can add some insight. Interesting idea. Dekimasuよ! 00:25, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Oh yes, that's a good point. I had always thought of it as a plural. Usually with the -chen diminutive the preceding vowels have an added umlaut (Häuschen etc), and neuter gender, so I wasn't thinking of that (Bairisch oddity?). But I note the German Wikipedia entry refers in several places to a singular Lebkuchen - "Heute ist der Lebkuchen..." - , and a quick dictionary ref suggests der Lebkuchen. This English article does refer to Lebkuchen consistently in the plural, so maybe it would be less confusing to refer to the singular - "A Lebkuchen is...." if this is correct. I'll not action this - see if anyone has anything to add, but prob. one to abandon, on reflection. --Cnbrb 09:03, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I've only just noticed this request, and it's based on a large misunderstanding. A number of German nouns, almost all masculine, have the ending -en (der Kuchen, der Garten, etc.). This ending may once have been a case ending, but is not a plural marker. In any case, Lebkuchen is a mass noun, including in German sentences like Der Lebkuchen ist…; German article usage is different from that in English. It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 10:20, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, agreed. --Cnbrb 12:45, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
Lebkuchen in German is almost never referred to in the plural: you say lebkuchen "is" in the way you say gingerbread is, and not lebkuchen are. also, a german would not refer to lebkuchen as cookies because cookies are generally hard and rather small and lebkuchen generally is soft, baked on a host-like edible sheet and at least about handsize. if at all, lebkuchen uses little flour but basically ground nuts, candied fruits, honey or sugar, chocolate and spices. only the harder varieties use more flour in order to use them for "gingerbread" houses or hearts sold at fairs to hang around one's neck. actually, i think, for the latter kind, only flour and spices are used and it tends to be more like honigkuchen (honey cake), which again resembles a lot more the english gingerbread.
because of its ingredients, of which many come from far away countries, lebkuchen was considered to be very special and certainly not eaten by poor people. today, good quality lebkuchen still is expensive compared to other baking goods.
as to its origins, on german wikipedia it says that gingerbread, as it is known today, originates in dinant, belgium. it's hard to imagine that something with such an old tradition can be pinned to a certain locality. it is also notable that in germany lebkuchen comes in many varieties with different names.
the picture: "freshly baked lebkuchen" does not depict traditional lebkuchen but the more cookie-like harder variety. it should be replaced; there are good pictures on german wikipedia. i deleted the sentence with the ancient teutonic peoples wearing lebkuchen around their necks. it sounds like german-romantic if not nazi-folklore. the reason for lebkuchen being traditional christmas food is because it was very special and expensive. Sundar1 09:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Der Deutsche" says: "Lebkuchen" alright, Picture not!

Thank you for the Lebkuchen-Article. Yes: "der Lebkuchen" is absolutely correct. But, as someone already says, the picture isn't. This dipicts a common "normal" Weihnachtskeks, which is a german Xmas cookie. The simplest. But not Lebkuchen. So maybe someone finds another picture. (Daniel, Cologne, Germany) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.135.103.69 (talk) 13:50, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Many people in Germany seem to think that eating Lebkuchen is a good cure for winter depression as well as a nutritious snack.

I took out this sentance as I have never heard of this in a serious context. (Tim, Augsburg, Germany)

The rest of the discussion seems to be redundant: Lebkuchen is considered the correct word and the pictures look good. (Tim, Augsburg, Germany) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.250.72.96 (talk) 13:43, 22 April 2008 (UTC)