Talk:Lebensraum
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- I think that is important to talk about geopolitics and geopolitical representations when talking about lebensraum. After all, this is one of their main examples and Retzel is considered, with haushofer and MacKinder as one of the founding fathers of the discipline. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.232.187.161 (talk) 14:24, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
I think it's unfair that the idea of Lebensraum seems to be only focused on the distorted way the Nazi's used it. The term was indeed coined by Retzel, and was meant as a geographic idea, uniting social and natural sciences. Modern Geography was greatly influenced by this idea, and still today, it has a great impact on geography (especially in the USA).
Also his writing about society a liquid mass moving in a quest for Lebensraum, with expansions and contractions in regression and progression is important in understanding the term.
Perhaps it would be wise to ensure the page at least mentions his theory, before moving on to how Nazi Germany used his term and theory to justify expansion.
- The literal translation from german is "habitat", "living space" or "room for life". The term has commonly been used in the 19th century (and later misused) not only to describe the need for space, but also the dependency of limited natural resources like acres for corn and cattle, raw materials like coal and iron ore, etc. Even if some writers attribute coining this term to Friedrich Ratzel, he has probably not been the inventor. Malthus' "Essay on the Principle of Population", written in 1798, (online available, e.g. gutenberg project [1]) contains several occurrences of "struggle for room and food", "scantiness of room and food" (as cause for unhealthy living conditions, and "sick seasons"), "room to expand in" (for unchecked populations increasing in a geometrical ratio) and "nature room" (which he against references to Godwin's and Condorcet's writings). In the context of the inefficient 18th century agrarian subsistence economy this term was used neutrally as limiting check to progressive economic growth. Malthus' writings were pretty influential, often cited and commonly read in the 19th century intellectual circles, so Ratzel can well have got the phrase from those discussions.
- Associating the concept of understanding habitats and the limited resources in ecosystems with Nazi ideology is probably misleading, maybe a formulation like "The term Lebensraum in historic and english writings is usually used in the context of imperialist and Nazi ideology, trying to justify expansionist ideas. In common german language it's also used neutrally (e.g. the phrase: der Lebensraum der Tiere - the natural habitat of animals)."
- — 212.144.193.114 17:52, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
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- I find it important that this article mentiones that Hitler's struggle for Lebensraum was part of his (crazy) racist worldview, that an apocalyptic Endkampf (final struggle) between races was near. Hitler was not just someone who wanted more territory for Germany! Not just ! The racist aspect in Hitler's motivation certainly distinguishes his war for Lebensraum from most other aggressions. - That's why I made my contribution. If you dislike the wording, change it, but please leave the message: Without understanding that Hitler believed in a struggle between races, one could not comprehend his concept of Lebensraum. 84.189.113.31 18:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC) mroo
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- In addition: Lebensraum is a German word. Today, noone in Germany would call the expansion of any state a struggle for Lebensraum, even if it's an ethnic struggle. This word is reserved for The Third Reich, maybe except for its use in biology. Thank you. 84.189.113.31 19:03, 25 August 2006 (UTC) mroo
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- Additionally, wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary, so articles are by topic, not word. I'm changing the article to reflect this. This article is on the Nazi concept, other meanings of the word should have there own page linked by a disambig. Ashmoo 02:18, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
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