Talk:Latin American Australian

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flag
Portal
 Latin American Australian is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
Assessment comments

Contents

[edit] Latino Australian?

Hello TeePee-20.7, are you the same guy that made up 'Hispanic Australian'? Can you please answer,

  • why are only Latin Americans 'Latino' and why not Spaniards and Italians?
  • What is the exact reference from the Census? It seems to me that you simply added up all the Latin American groups because there is no reference to 'Latino Australians'.
  • Is Latino used in this page simply an extension of the American usage of Latino?
  • Can you find any link that uses the term 'Latino Australians'?
  • Finally, The former Prime Minister Chris Watson was born in Chile but he was of German and New Zealand descent and didn't identify himself as a Chilean and certainly not 'Latino Australian'. Do you have a reference of him being 'Latino' and or identifying as one?

-Ollech (talk) 17:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello Ollech, in regards to your questions, no I am not the same person who made Hispanic Australian, and before you mentioned this article I wasn't even aware of it's existence. This also striked me as odd as you have been actively making contributions to that article for a while now, but as you seem to be a new member you may not know all the little helpful features of wikipedia. By checking the history of a page you can see who created it and can verify I wasn't the user who created this page. Also from the follow up questions you have asked it seems to me you have an issue with the use of the word Latino. All these questions I will try to answer for you.
  • Spaniards and Italians are not Latinos because they are European and not from Latin America.
  • I can't give you the exact reference, as I no longer have access to it.
  • I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this so I will leave it unanswered.
  • In regards to a link there is actually a site called latinoaustralia.
  • No, there is absolutely no reference of him being Latino or identifying as Latino, and I don't think anyone will ever find one judging from what was said in that article. The reason he was added is because he is from Chile, but on further revision he could be easily removed from this page.

TeePee-20.7 (talk) 23:33, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reliable Reference

 This article needs additional citations for verification.
Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (November 2007)

Also why did you add this reference tag to my article? The census is a reliable reference. TeePee-20.7 (talk) 00:25, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

With respect, this is not your article. There is no reference in the Australian Census about 'Latinos' and the rest of the page has no references or citations at all. The Census states the numbers of respective South American immigrant groups but does not group them as Latino. There are in fact other sites as you indicated using Latino but some include Spaniards and others are sites from overseas in particular the Americas with reference to Australia. Latino is a common word throughout Latin America. I'm not saying that your entirely wrong but I think it's dubious to list people because they're of Latin American descent all down as 'Latino Australian' when they are in fact of different ancestral, ethnic and national backgrounds. -Ollech (talk) 11:58, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I am aware that there is no reference in the Australian Census about Latinos but this is trivial, there does not need to be any reference. You seemed to be confused on who actually is Latino and this seems to be your main point of debate. Going by your logic the pages Anglo-Celtic Australian and Black Australian should be drawn into question as they are also not referenced in the Australian Census. The rest of the page shouldn't need citations and references as no more information than what is available in the census is really given. And how exactly am I wrong? "I'm not saying that your entirely wrong" Again this opinion seems to me, to have come from your belief that I am not aware of what or who a Latino is, and in my opinion, no offense intended, is due to yourself not grasping the concept of a Latino. My view is further strengethed by your comment: "I think it's dubious to list people because they're of Latin American descent all down as 'Latino Australian' when they are in fact of different ancestral, ethnic and national backgrounds."

This is exactly what Latinos are, of different ancestral, ethnic and national backgrounds. This is the great and unique thing about Latinos is that they can be White, Black, American Indian, Asian, Multiracial and of all different nationalities. TeePee-20.7 (talk) 14:41, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

'Latino' is an Americanism so the ethnic group 'Latino Australians' makes no sense. For the most, Latin American immigrants refer to their nationality as their ethnicity or simply consider themselves Australian. These hyphenated ethnic names are basically Wikipedia bullshit. No one would ever call themselves 'Latino Australian' unless they are an ignorant aping American culture.
The term 'Latino' has currency in the United States due mostly to the fact that Mexicans are such a large minority. There is a definite 'Latino' culture there made up largely of Mexican Americans and to a lesser extent Puerto Ricans who are usually more American than anything but nevertheless ostrocised from mainstream White American society.
These ethnic labels like Latino, Hispanic and even White have little currency in Australia because Australians prefer integration of immigrants rather than the segregation into different castes based on race and socio economic status.
Also, "Census is reliable" is not good enough if there is nothing in the Census referring to 'Latino Australians' or even 'Latinos'. -Ollech (talk) 01:54, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Have you been living under a rock? Half of Australian english is based on "Americanism" as you call it nowadays. Who are you to say they refer to their nationality as their ethnicity? You don't know this. If you have a problem with all the articles with hyphenated ethnic names, then take it up with wikipedia and make a complaint and state your reasons. They will listen to you and if they feel that it is also bullshit, although I doubt this as there are a whole heap of these articles, they will delete them. No one would call themselves Anglo-Celtic Australian either, so what's your point?
Why are you trying to debate culture now as a reason for your opposition against this article?
Again your opinion and I am not sure what relevance this has.
Did you even read my reply to you? "Yes, I am aware that there is no reference in the Australian Census about Latinos but this is trivial, there does not need to be any reference. You seemed to be confused on who actually is Latino and this seems to be your main point of debate. Going by your logic the pages Anglo-Celtic Australian and Black Australian should be drawn into question as they are also not referenced in the Australian Census.". I am reverting your edit, and if your truly feel additional citations are needed and choose to revert my revert, then you can be the asshole who sticks this same template on those two pages as I am not going to. And you need to be fair. TeePee-20.7 (talk) 02:20, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Chris Watson was simply an Australian. He wasn't 'Latino' or even even Chilean therefore I've removed his picture from this article. If he was anything other than ethnically Australian he would not have been Prime Minister. See White Australia Policy.

I've added a 'citation needed' as the definition is unsourced and please don't be a Pussy and call me an arsehole because you cannot find a source. The Census as I have previously stated does not categorise anyone as 'Latino' or 'Latino Australian'. Also, the overwhelming majority of Caribbean descendants are not Latin Americans, speak Spanish or identify as Latino.

You have decided for yourself that various nationalities and ethnicities are all called 'Latino Australians' similar to the US official ethnic category of Hispanic/Latino without providing a single source. The Australian Bureau of Statistics is very clear as to how ethnicity is listed and goes to great detail to explain it's methods which differs to those of the US Census.

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/DetailsPage/1249.02005-06?OpenDocument

What is at issue is your obvious misrepresentation in interpreting official Australian Census data and not whether I oppose this article. I've also removed various names and who were or are considered mainstream Australians, or simply are not well known enough to be included. -Ollech (talk) 12:43, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Wow Ollech I see you have crawled out from under that rock you have been living! Sigh, you see this is one of the major flaws of wikipedia, which is letting ignorant, close-minded people such as yourself edit articles. Chris Watson was simply an Australian I agree and a great one at that too. But something that seems to be a reoccurent issue with you is that you do not READ. I will now make quote myself "No, there is absolutely no reference of him being Latino or identifying as Latino, and I don't think anyone will ever find one judging from what was said in that article. The reason he was added is because he is from Chile, but on further revision he could be easily removed from this page." I do not need to "see White Australia Policy" as I am quite aware of this and was in fact one of the things I was alluding to in my reply from last year! He maintained his father was a British seaman called George Watson due to this racist policy. And this is one of the reasons no one will ever find a reference. I will keep his image removed from the article due to that reason but will reinsert his name and if you choose to remove it once again I will not revert your edit. You really should see Chris Watson
I have not and never will be a "Pussy" because I cannot find a source and call you an arsehole. You didn't seem to comprehend what I was saying to you in my reply. So once again understand that this little fact is trivial and if you want to add a 'citation needed' or tempelate over this issue then you must do the same to similar articles such as Anglo-Celtic Australian and Black Australian out of fairness. Sigh, as I have already previously stated stated I am well aware of this fact. Yeh, says you. You do not know this, this is just your opinion. There is no overwhelming majority of carribeans who are not Latin American or identify as Latino, this is just your opinion. Latinos do not need to speak spanish to be Latino.
No I have not decided this, this is just fact. Your problem is you do not agree with the fact on who Latinos are so you wish to debate this on an article you think you may be able to change to suit your own views. This is the issue wether you admit it or not! I am reverting your unproductive edits to improve this article, as you do not even want this article to be improved and you are against the whole thing! Please just go back to your rock and stop being so ignorant. TeePee-20.7 (talk) 15:15, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rename to Latin Australian?

The term "Latino Australian" is not used - a Google search reveals websites that either have copied this or use the keywords in a different context. Instead I propose using the term "Latin Australian", which is used in several publications found on many websites. Comments? Kransky (talk) 16:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

A google search reveals 439 000 hits and 616 hits with "". Even though in spanish this is maculine form I don't think we should change this to the term "Latin Australian" as this term is more controversial and would lead to further debate and less clarity on the purpose/definition of the page. Another example of, if it's not broken then don't fix it. TeePee-20.7 (talk) 17:37, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
But it is "broken". The definition "Latino Australian" does not exist, therefore a Wikipedia article should not exist in this name. I don't understand the point you are trying to make with the 439000/616 hits - can you elaborate please? What is controversial about "Latin Australian"? - we have Latin American Britons without any fuss and "Latin Australian" means exactly the same thing as "Latino Australian" without being gender-specific and half Spanish/half English. And "Latin Australian" is used in a variety of writing, including academic thesises, forums and magazines (worth reading if you are interested in this subject)! Kransky (talk) 22:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
The point I'm trying to make is that it does exist and if you want to use google as a basis for your idealogy I thought I would tell you those statistics. The controversial problems that could arise due to a name change is what I alluded to in my previous comment, it would lead to less clarity on the definition. It is true the term Latin is used to refer to Latinos as a short english form not being gender specific, and that it is used in reference to Latinos such as Latin Music, Latin Dance and so on. But if we change this to "Latin" then many of the debates already associated with the use of Latin to refer to Latinos exclusively will arise. Because Latin is a language it is associated with the romance countries of Europe (Spain, Portugal, Italy, France and Romania) the clarity will be disorted and many Europeans may feel they are also Latin and might feel they are Latin Australians. "Latino Australian" is also used in a variety of writing, including academic thesises, TASA and forums (worth reading if you are interested in this subject)! TeePee-20.7 (talk) 06:42, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rename to Latin American Australian?

This is maximally clear, does get comparable usage according to Google, and both Latino and Latin are abbreviations of Latin American. The other terms will still work as redirects to this article. --JWB (talk) 18:01, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Note: We've now discussed this at Latino Canadian and moved it to Latin American Canadian. This also matches Latin American Briton. --JWB (talk) 07:24, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Why complicate things? What is wrong with the current naming? To me it seems there is nothing wrong with it so why do you want it changed? TeePee-20.7 (talk) 15:54, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
support rename. Nobody says "Latino American Australian" in Australia, especially not the community itself. In Australia we have the Latin American Association of WA Inc, the Latin American Dance Association, the Latin American Cultural Association, theSydney Latin American Film Festival, theLatin American Association and the NSW Spanish and Latin American Association for Social Assistance. Kransky (talk) 16:57, 17 May 2008 (UTC)