User talk:Last1in
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Please feel free to post any comments about my edits here. I love to learn, and becoming a Wikipedian will require input from people like you. Negative comments are always welcome for that very reason; I cannot become better if YOU don't tell me what I'm doing wrong (or right). Kevin Wells 16:17, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Hometown Project
I'm tired of finding mention of a town or city, either in Wiki or the outside world, and finding the Wikipedia article has nothing but Lat/Long coordinates and some census data. Projects like the U.S. cities Wikiproject give a shell, but an encyclopaedia should be more that a list of sterile facts; it should give at least a little of the flavour of a place.
Every one of us is from SOMEWHERE. You know something about your hometown -- its history, its lore and its identity -- and you know that's more than a map location and a population breakdown. I'd like to challenge every Wikipedian to look up the place or places that you know and, if there is nothing substantive there, add something encyclopaedic and interesting.
I went to school in a town so stultifyingly boring that the paint watched US dry. But even that speck of a hamlet has a history. When you go there, whether in Wiki or the "real" world, you know it's more than numbers. - Kevin Wells/Last1in
[edit] Jesus Stuff
Please post Jesus-related comments and criticisms here.
[edit] Re:Restorationism
We could use some help. Wikipedia:Article_Improvement_Drive#Restorationism (1 vote, stays until August 15). should bring more people in. Arch O. La Grigory Deepdelver 15:49, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Santhara: perspectives
Perhaps, and unfortunately so, you wrote on the Jainism page, " + Some Jains also revere the practice of Santhara, where a person who has completed all duties in this life ceases to eat or drink unto death. This has recently led to controversy in India, where the practice is illegal."
Well, and may I ask,what knowledge do you have about the legal system of India, its laws, ...and the religious traditions of Jains to say that "the practice is illegal". Pasted below is my comment on the discussion page. You may also see the new edit of the page, which tries to give a relatively neutral picture. Please note that my comment is based entirely on Supreme Court of India's judgments on 1, Euthanasia, 2. Indian Penal Code Section 307 which deals with "attempt to suicide". I can email you the text of the judgments, if you want to convince yourself regarding the authenticity of the comments.
Perspectives on Santhara
Legalese 21:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC)It will be appreciated if users discuss here first, their perceptions regarding the practice of Santhara and its legality, before writing anything they feel like in the main page. I found a user wrote "the practice of Santhara is illegal". On what basis did he or she arrive to this conclusion is questioned, since the matter is already pending before the High Court of Rajasthan, and it is not too wise to give a conclusive statement beforehand. Moreover, such blanket statements, which are not reasoned, hurt the religious sentiments of Jains, and the users must keep this in mind. While Freedom of Speech is a liberty, the Freedom of Conscience is an equally available right, and hence, keep in mind that the use of one does not curtail the scope of the other. in Solidarity, Rishabh
My response posted to Rishabh's talk page: Rishabh,
Thank for your excellent edit to the Santhara paragraph in Jainism. The first paragraph of what you wrote is superb.
I have several requests, however. First, please do not impugn the abilities or motives of other editors. I strongly suggest that, when you calm down a bit, you review WP:FAITH and WP:CIV. WP:KC also has info that might help you. More on this subject below.
I did not say that the practice of Santhara is illegal. Dozens upon dozens of sources said so and I placed that information in an appropriate place within an appropriate article. I am neither a scholar on India's legal system nor Santhara and would be perfectly willing to acknowledge a mistake, but the prohibition on suicide in §309 (which I am amused to note you claim is in §307) is not the only thing at issue.
Dozens of protestors across India are charged with a criminal offence for taking a fast to the point where death is likely. In many cases, especially protests that embarrass local officials, the definition of "likely" is extremely subjective. Rajasthan is something of an exception due to the respect most local officials have for Jains. That does not make the difference of treatment fair, equitable or appropriate in the eyes of many Indians, especially those prevented from attempting to enter Rūpadhātu by an official who finds their fast inconvenient.
On to more substantive and contentious issues, the tone and substance of your talk page posts:
(1) You accused me, amongst a host of other things, of religious intolerance and "…hurt[ing] the religious sentiments of Jains…". Perhaps you may want to contemplate the effect of your own assertions that it is not comprehensible that anyone could see Santhara is illegal or that no question [can exist] regarding its illegality on Hindus prevented from a similar exit from this world, or on Fundamentalist Christians who view any self-release from "this mortal vale of tears" as an abomination and a direct insult to their god, or on non-secular Indians suffering from any number of diseases who are actively prevented from surcease of suffering by the Penal Code.
(2) Your additions (the two paragraphs you created after your excellent edit of my inadequate Santhara paragraph) are in my opinion so abysmally POV that your talk page statement about adding a "neutral picture" is astonishing. To me, they seem about as neutral a defence solicitor's brief. I would propose that they violate WP:POV, WP:NOR, WP:FAITH and WP:CIV.
(3) Your snide little aside about "writing anything [I] feel like in the main page" is both insulting and condescending, and quite wrong. I spent several hours researching and distilling info prior to posting my Santhara edit; I would suggest that you do the same in future. I have yet to come across a single source supporting your concept of legality that was not authored from a Jain POV. Please provide your sources. I would also like to suggest you visit WP:KC. It has some excellent ideas you might be able to use.
(4) It is not a normal practise in Wikipedia to subject every edit for "prior approval" to some cabal on the talk page, especially if the new information is widely represented in respectable sources. My edit certainly falls into that category, whereas yours relies on a very creative interpretation of the Penal Code and a rather inflexible Jain POV.
(5) Claiming that my post was not reasoned is equally insulting and offensive, and a clear violation of WP:CIV and WP:FAITH. I would thank you not to repeat them. Againa, I'd like to point you toward WP:KC
(6) Editors, like BOTH of us, need to keep ALL users in mind, not just the subjects of articles. Remember that the primary audience for an article on a religion is those outside that faith; to present info that denigrates all other ideas is counterproductive, offensive and wrong. To claim that Christians perpetrated the Crusades and slaughtered Muslims is upsetting to Christians, but nevertheless accurate. If we only include comfortable information, we are not encyclopaedists, but propagandists.
I respect your contributions to articles on a host of Jain-related issues, and hope you will continue to help us build a superb and worldwide resource in Wikipedia. I understand your core objection to the substance of my post and like the edit you made to correct it. I do not, however, appreciate a public flogging over an edit that essentially reflected the general consensus view of hundreds of millions of people (and as many non-Jain sources as I could find) on the legal status of Santhara. Kevin/Last1in 04:02, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Chain page
Hi, thought you might be interested, I have been working on the Chain page, and have established (in stub form) the basic 'chain' page that your note on the original 'Chain' page (which is now Chain (disambiguation)) said was needed. It's true that the disambig page isn't really a disambig page, I don't know if there's a better Wiki term for it --Mortice 21:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Bloody Question
Thanks for the query. I don't have a reference for it, but there was a certain form of question that was put to recusants under interrogation. Just to confirm that it was a genuine phenomenon, on a quick google ("the bloody question" Burghley) I found this - http://www.springerlink.com/content/cj1hfa8k9clvljw4/ It's years since I read about it, but my recollection is that the question (or interrogatory) was quite a bit more involved than the form contained in that link, and was expertly designed to frustrate equivocating answers from informed catholics. Maybe I'm giving too much credit to Cecil - although he was a wise and crafty fox.--Shtove 21:16, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] PS
I've just read your userpage - good attitude to WP.
Plus 'always' is spelt incorrectly at the top of this page - won't interfere.--Shtove 21:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] User talk pages
I have moved Talk:Last1in/Archive 1 to User talk:Last1in/Archive 1 and deleted the resultant redirect. I also fixed the link at the top of this page. User talk pages go under "User talk:" not "Talk:". Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. -- JLaTondre 16:14, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
