Talk:Largest village in England

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Who exacly claims that Studley is the second largest village in England?.

I can tell you for a fact that it isnt even the second largest village in Warwickshire, both Polesworth and Bulkington are larger. G-Man 20:45, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

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[edit] Methley?

See it's wikipedia article (Methley) Gigitrix (talk) 20:20, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wombourne

Interestingly, the article on Wombourne claims that it is "officially the largest village in England". it's not even mentioned on this page. So, is it the largest or not? One of the pages must be wrong! Grutness...wha? 06:12, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

So be bold! I'm surprised to see you of all people holding back! :) Put it on the list. And if you read the article, you'll see that they are probably all wrong. Or all right. And that it dosn't matter anyway. Naturenet | Talk 09:07, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wendover

The definition of what constitutes a village may be in dispute in the UK, but not what constitutes a town - Wendover in Buckinghamshire has had a town charter since 1464 and still holds it; it is therefore not a village and hasn't been for over 500 years. It has been removed from the article. -- Francs2000 02:25, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Wendover doesn't have a town council though. And really the definition of 'town' is as muddled as 'village', but by the legal definition of town (which is a parish that calls itself a town), it ain't one. Of course, that's a stupid definition, also. But I think this claim ought to be reinserted. Morwen - Talk 13:57, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Are you sure that's the legal definition? Aylesbury didn't have a town council until very recently and it's been the county town of Buckinghamshire since the mid 16th century. My understanding is that the legal definition of a town in the UK is that it should have a town charter or charter of incorporation; this is what the Towns of the United Kingdom article says is the official definition, and Wendover certainly does have a charter. -- Francs2000 15:47, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
I'd argue that if it doesn't have a mayor right now, then it isn't a legal town, despite the fact that it may have been one once. It doesn't necessarily have to have a parish council - could have Charter Trustees instead - a concept that was set up solely in order to keep places as towns! Compare the situation with Rochester, which isn't a city because it doesn't have a mayor. City and town are different levels of honorifics, but fundamentally they have the same origin and kind (honours granted on settlements by the king). I'm not saying this isn't a stupid definition, and I'm not saying we should use it. But I don't like your definition either, as it leads to lots of parliamentary boroughs that are today considered villages, being considered towns, too. Old Sarum is not a town. :p Morwen - Talk 19:41, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
I would like to say for the record that I think the mayor definition is a bit silly as that would mean that a number of places that are considered to be historic market towns in this area are not towns any more, and I'll leave it up to you to inform the local residents. I live in a town (Aylesbury) and we identify with the town charter and celebrate it every year; local places like Wendover and Winslow are considered by most locals to be towns and while they don't have mayors they do have charters. In my experience the people who tend to think of Wendover as a village tend to be the newcomers who move there because it's so picturesque and identify with the village idea because it fits with their rose-tinted view of the countryside</POV>. Right, rant over, let's just agree to disagree. -- Francs2000 21:44, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Population

Ideally we need estimates all from the same source. Combining estimates from different sources is bad. Morwen - Talk 13:42, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Absolutely - I should have put in a health warning. Probably the 2001 census would be the best source - is there information available for each of these "villages" yet? Warofdreams talk 13:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Smallest town in England"

Until just now, the Fordwich article claimed that Fordwich is the smallest town in England. I've altered that to non-specific "is said to be". Googling, I find other claimants to be Manningtree, Winchelsea, Axbridge, Bishop's Castle, although it is unclear how many places make this claim on an official basis. Now, the issues above regarding the definition of 'town' make this tricky. Fordwich currently has a town council and used to be a borough, so has a good claim. Morwen - Talk 23:08, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I will categorically state now that I have no idea where the smallest town in the UK is. I'm probably sitting on it for all I know.  ;-p -- Francs2000 23:36, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
My vote is Old Sarum! :) Morwen - Talk 08:28, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I did quite a bit of checking when I originally added that note to the Fordwich article. Fordwich is almost certainly the smallest place with a town council in England (or Wales) and seems to be the smallest town to claim to be the smallest town in England. Of course, this question is complicated by the lack of a good definition of "town". The smallest town ever could be Gatton - it only had seven voters to Old Sarum's ten! (reference: Unreformed House of Commons) Warofdreams talk 10:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
K. Have reverted self. Morwen - Talk 11:58, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "Smallest village"

And I am reminded of the claim made in Ault Hucknall that it is the "smallest village in England"! Morwen - Talk 12:35, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Define "village" <vbg> -- Francs2000 23:06, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I hope that if you've read the article you'll see that one cannot do so in this context. Naturenet | Talk 08:47, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bessacarr

Don't know if it's ever claimed the title but Bessacarr, just south-east of Doncaster, has a high population. The census counts it as a village, so it must be one of the largest. I expect that its population are too busy enjoying their private swimming pools to bother with something as parochial as this. :) Epa101 13:07, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Horsforth

When has Horsforth ever made claim to be a village? It has a town council, and everyone always refers to it as a town.

Why was it put back on? I threaten to take it off again unless someone explains why it's on here. Legally, it is a town, and most West Yorkshire people seem to call it a town. Epa101 19:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Street (Som)

Has an urban character though no town council. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.105.237.181 (talk) 20:13, 20 March 2007 (UTC).


[edit] Update Villages

Street is now classified as a town according to http://www.glastonbury.gov.uk. How many other of these listing are classified by the govt as towns? Gazab1 18:39, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

You're right in one sense, but wrong in another. A fundamental point of the article is that such classifications are neither absolute nor even relevant. The government doesn't define towns or villages, and you could no doubt find evidence that most if not all the settlements listed are known as towns, villages and other things in different contexts. If somebody thinks their settlement is the largest village in England, that's probably reason enough to be on this list. I have removed your clean-up template. Naturenet | Talk 20:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
You cannot simply have a article on the largest village without even having one main and absolute deffinition of a village on which the majority of people agree on. Ok if the government doesn't define one but the definition on the page is one for new roads?!? Removing the clean-up template was pointless, any visitor can see that this article is basically a mess. Why would you visit the largest village in england article? To find out about the largest village in england of course! not a disscussion on what the largest village constiutes. So back to my first and main point. The article does need cleaning up and also we need a main definition. Gazab1 10:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
This is an encyclopaedia article, and it is not for us to decide which is the largest village. As it is a matter of many claims and counter-claims, we can summarise those claims and discuss why it is not possible to definitively declare anywhere the largest village in England. If we are to have a clean-up template, you will need to explain what needs cleaning up - the changes you suggest would be a big step backwards. What the article does need are far more references and possible changes to its rather informal tone. Warofdreams talk 16:28, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
As a encyclopaedia I suggest that we should be aiming to get the facts correct? Yes? I suggest we filter the claims and counter-claims and actually produce a relevant article. I also suggest that we take a step backwards, a big one if need be and start again from the beginning to make sure it is correct. Gazab1 17:39, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Gazab1 has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

I really don't understand what you are saying. There is no single "largest village in England". It would be false to pretend that we can write an article that tells people what it is. Just as with any other article, we must summarise the views which are available - not pretend that there is an agreement in the outside world which doesn't exist. Yes, we can work further on adding details on exactly what claims are made for each settlement, and if any other reports have attempted to decide which is the largest village in England, we can report that. But discussion of what constitutes a village should be exactly what the main point of the article is - the key fact is that there is no consensus as to what the largest village is. Warofdreams talk 18:01, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your positive contribution, Gazab1, and what a nice smile. I can understand your point of view but I don't entirely share it. I support the comments made by Warofdreams above. This article has had for some time a consensus shared by quite a few different editors and which is different to the new way of writing it that you're proposing. That certainly doesn't mean you're wrong, but it does mean that we'll need to discuss it quite carefully before we make the radical changes you're suggesting. You're very sensibly doing that now by engaging on the talk page, which is appreciated. But do bear with us as a big change like this is not usually quickly agreed.
The point of this article, like any encyclopaedic article, is to describe the thing it refers to insofar as that is possible. In this case there is some genuine difficulty in literally doing that. Wikipedia is not a place for resolving contentious issues. In the case of serious disagreement the policy is to describe the nature of the disagreement, not to attempt to sort it out one way or the other. Now in this instance the case is trivial, but the principle is the same. There is never, ever, going to be a real-world consensus on what the largest village in England is. So it would be artificial to either attempt to hold a debate amongst ourselves to resolve what the real world actually does think it is, or to simply decide which definition we prefer and use that. This makes me very cautious about your proposal, although I repeat that's not to say you're wrong at all. Perhaps you can help us by explaining in a bit more detail how your suggestion would fit with Wikipedia policy, and how you might deal with the issues we have raised?

Naturenet | Talk 18:13, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with some of the points. The aim I am trying to make is to overall make the article more relevant in the context its proposed. May I then suggest changing the heading from the "largest village in england" to the "largest villages in england" as this is more relevant to the context. Having read the policy although I can say it doesn't resolve this issue much. The real-world issue has no fix so I suggest if we cant change the content to fit the article, change the article (heading at least) to fit the content. Gazab1 10:41, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
A sensible proposal. That way everyone gets what they think best. I've created a new page called Largest villages in England which redirects here. So anyone seaching for the largest villages will find this article too, just as you suggested. Thanks for your contributions and for helping to resolve the matter so amicably. Naturenet | Talk 15:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
A redirect makes sense. Warofdreams talk 01:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is it Ewell?

Ewell has always been called "a village" for as long as I can remember it, yet has a population of 39,994 - nearly 13,000 larger than Epsom, despite the latter being the "town" in Epsom and Ewell. WOuld it qualify? Timrollpickering 14:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The smallest village called "Ireland" in England

I had seen a small video clip on probably Channel Four or some commonly available channel in UK. It mentioned that there was a smallest village called "Ireland" in England. That village had only three houses and a pub. I tried to obtain more details about this village, but could not get any inputs. The video clip was shown on TV in 2001.

If anyone gets more inputs regarding this small villgae, please let me know on [e-mail address removed]

Thanks in advance, Sagar Paradkar

I've removed your e-mail address, as leaving it here can lead to you getting spam. I suspect that your are after the village of Ireland, Bedfordshire, although we have very little information on it. Warofdreams talk 23:09, 13 March 2008 (UTC)