Talk:Kyi, Schek and Khoryv

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Contents 1 fascinating but too novell stuff moved to talk 2 names 3 Khoriv in Russian and Ukrainian 4 Lybid 5 vandalism

[edit] fascinating but too novell stuff moved to talk

Dear contributor. The text below is vey interesting and I appreciate your effort writing it but in current form we cannot have it yet. The reason is that you presented it as an unquestionable set of arguments, while this is not a mainstream interpretation at all. So, we should either present this sourced to some repctable scholar and say, that "according to..., while the majority thinks ...", or we can't have this in the article at all. Please quote your sources here and we can decide what to do with the material below. --Irpen 02:10, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

The historical reality behind the mythical character "Kyi" is that his name is a Turkic word denoting "river-bank", originally applied to the higher western bank of the Dnieper River at the location of the settlement that became the city of Kyiv.

The etymological derivation of "Kyiv" indicates that the area was originally inhabited by Turkic-speaking peoples, who gave the settlement on the high western bank of the Dnieper River its name. The legend of the foundation of Kyiv by three brothers Kyi, Schek and Khoriv was developed to explain the place-name, once Slavic settlers had replaced the Turkic inhabitants and the real meaning of the name had been forgotten.

The name of the third brother, Khoriv, is simply the Russian rendition of the Hebrew Chorev, the other name for Mount Sinai. Its incorporation into the legend may reflect the presence of Jews or Khazar converts to Judaism at an early period in the history of Kyiv.

The name "Lybed", meaning "Swan", given to the sister of the three brothers, reflects the presence of the Magyar tribes along the Dnieper River prior to their migration to modern Hungary in the 9th century. According to Magyar myths of origin, their country of sojourn before they moved to the Pannonian plain was called "Lebedia", or "Swanland", named after their chief, Lebed. However, Lebed is definitely a Slavic word, not Magyar, and the name must have been borrowed by the Hungarians from Slavs at some point in their migrations.

[edit] names

It seems that there are about 3 major theories about each name–Gnomz⁰⁰⁷(?) 07:22, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Currenly, the article is full of blatant speculations. Actually, everything is known about these mythical persons are their name, and this is ideal ground for all kinds of unsubstantiated claims to develop. Of zillions conflicting interpretations that proliferate, they chose those that postulate that Kiev was founded by Jews, i.e. Khazar Jews. This is obviously POV, because we all know when the Khazars took Judaism. --Ghirla | talk 01:17, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Maybe scrap most of it, AU wiki explains the legends by the name of the local mountains.–Gnomz⁰⁰⁷(?) 01:48, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

I believe we should take it with a grain of salt, that's all. Assuming that Kiev has a Jewish etymology or proclaiming that Khoriv "is of biblical origin" is too much for an encyclopedia that aspires to be as unbiased as possible. --Ghirla | talk 08:05, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Khoriv in Russian and Ukrainian

While you have a correct spelling of Khoriv in Russian, "Хорив", in Ukrainian the correct speeling should be "Хорiв" Goliath74 03:45, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually it's the Latin spelling that was wrong, it's Khoryv.

Actually it is definitely "Хорiв" in Ukrainian, not "Хорив", as it states in the article. Goliath74 20:11, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

What do You base this claim on? Almost everywhere I saw it it was Хорив, on the net You'll see it for example on the official site of the city council [1], and major newspapers ([2], [3], [4]) --Teche richka Tysa 11:23, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lybid

Lybid redirects here, however it should be an article about the Lybid river.

[edit] vandalism

the name Khoriv does apear sometimes, i guess mostly incompetent and undereducated civil servents left over from soviet era (though it can even be found no the net like [5]), however the proper spelling is Khoryv used for example among others by the official site of the city council [6]. regardless of the correct name the edits made by me and the other person included more fixes and deleting them wholesale is clear proof of malicious intentions. --Teche richka Tysa 21:19, 18 December 2006 (UTC)