Talk:Kill Hannah

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[edit] Why is there a whole section about Kerry Finerty?

While that section of the article certainly seems well researched Kerry Finerty herself is obviously not very notable since there's no article about her on Wikipedia and she only co-wrote four songs with the band. That's barely worth mentioning, let alone devoting an entire section of the article to her. According to the article Allen Morgenstern co-wrote three songs with the band, there's no section about him. None of the songs she co-wrote are their most well-known songs, she's not notable, her time in the band didn't have a huge influence on their sound. Therefore I'm removing the section unless someone can give me a great reason why it should be kept. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.79.95.148 (talk) 15:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Several editors repeatedly added information about her to the article attempting to play up her importance to the band. That section was a compromise at the time. Since then it has been stripped down so much from the original paragraph that it could probably be incorporated elsewhere into the article without it's own section. I think it's worth keeping in the article since it is well-sourced. I think it would be more useful to spend time merging the individual band members' brief articles into the main Kill Hannah article. At that point, having a few sentences about Finerty won't seem quite so out of place. You might also want to create a user account for yourself so that you can take credit for your edits. :-) Patrick925 (talk) 16:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks but I'm not concerned with taking credit for my edits. I think a more logical approach would be to expand the band members' individual profiles instead of trying to merge them with the main article. Regardless, as it stands now it just doesn't make sense to have a section about Finerty. She's listed under "Previous Band Members" along with "lead guitar/backing vocals, co-wrote four songs". That's all of the information you need to know, the fact that she dated Mat isn't important. I don't see the sense in keeping it purely because it's well-sourced when it really has no place in the article.

It's not so much about ego as it is with identifying yourself. Unsigned edits tend to be considered more suspicious and you're more likely to be banned because your cablemodem IP can be shared. Since you're interested in improving the article, it's helpful for other editors to be able to dialog with you, as you're doing here. Without an account, nobody will know who they are talking to. It will also allow you to work on the article in the event that it has an anti-vandalism tag which would restrict editing to established and registered editors.

The following articles have been tagged as suggested for merging into the main Kill Hannah article; Mat_Devine, Jonathan_Radtke, Dan_Wiese, Greg_Corner. I'm not sure if there is really enough to say about each band member to warrant individual articles. There's a good tutorial here Wikipedia:Merging_and_moving_pages if you're interested in taking on the task of merging those four pages into the main article, and then putting a redirect on the old article to the band article.

Regarding the Finerty section: By no means do I think that she had any substantial role in the band's evolution. I think in a perfect world, there would be a short paragraph about every ex-member, not just her. Following that thought, maybe adding a section about ALL of the ex-members would help the article. The sourced and already-vetted material about Finerty could be placed there. I think this section would be great because it could cover Hammond's big contributions to the band, Wenberg's death, etc. Removing information from an article is a slippery slope, because it is often added back in ways that don't always make sense, or provoke an Edit War.

Patrick925 (talk) 19:33, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] R. Kelly/Ludacris/Kid Rock video

I believe the item about Kill Hannah appearing in a Ludicris/Kid Rock/R. Kelly video is note worthy for that article under the "other activities" section for the following reason; Kill Hannah is an indie band, and were invited into a video of an immensely popular trio of artists. This is relevant because it illustrates the level of achievement that the band has had. The only reason why I can think of that it shouldn't be included in the article is that it's "trivia", but it's an important step in the band's evolution, and especially noteworthy that a band in Kill Hannah's genre would appear in a hip hop video. Additionally, there are several other items in the article that list the band's appearances in a variety of non-starring roles, all of which seem relevant in establishing the history and activities of the band. It's a sourced item, so I think it deserves extra consideration before being deleted. Patrick925 20:48, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

So you think it is a postive step for Kill Hannah that has always been strong advocates against songs that depict women in a negative light. To appear in a video with song lyrics that are against everything they stand for? It is not that noteworthy, nor was it a positive step for Kill Hannah. The video is not a pivotal point for them. Also take a look at what they have to say about R. Kelly. Also trivia is highly frowned upon and supposed to be removed.Aladdin Zane 22:02, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

It's beyond an editor's purview to make judgments about the motivation behind the activities of the subject of the article. Factually, they made a large appearance in a video made by three extremely popular musical artists. Similarly, other articles include information about collaboration between artists. I don't know as that it's much of a pivotal moment, but it does seem to elevate their status, especially in terms of exposure. You raise some interesting points though, so it seems even more appropriate to have this entry in the article since it appears to be a potentially controversial move made by the band. Also, trivia isn't supposed to be removed -- it should be integrated into the article in an organized fashion. (see also WP:TRIV). If anything, the item should be more tightly integrated into the body of the "other activities" section of the article. Can you think of any other reasons why the item shouldn't appear, other than the WP:POV items that you mentioned above? Patrick925 22:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

It does not need to be here for several reasons. It is just useless trivia. They are not stars of the video, they are background extras for the video, the do not sing in it, nor do they play music in it. They are not included the artists listed in the video either. It is a video for a song by R. Kelly featuring Ludacris and Kid Rock. Kill Hannah did not play music on the song. Naming it as an integregal part of their career is no more than useless trivia, Because it has nothing to do with their career. There is no difference than them being in the video than any off the other extras in the video. Furthermore there isn't even any info of their own videos on their page. And no it shouldn't be intergrated into any other part of the page for all the reasons I stated. Musically this video has nothing to do with their career. Also the fact of you stating it should be included because "it does seem to elevate their status" is a personal POV expressed by you. They are not in a large portion of the video. If you add up all the time and member is on camera (all the times are about oone second each, two seconds max) it is about 30 seconds, out of a 7 minute videoAladdin Zane 12:26, 23 October 2007 (UTC)Aladdin Zane 12:20, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

That's your opinion. The yappeared in it, it's reportable, cited and encyclopedic, it's written in NPOV style, and your continual removal is POV-based. 75.3.112.64 01:24, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

They did not star in the video, They have nothing to do with the music or vocals in the video. They were hired as extras same as everyone else in the video. It is not encyclopedic.Aladdin Zane 12:40, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

How do you know that they were hired? Seems to me that this could be inserted into the article by changing this sentence; "Kill Hannah signed with Atlantic Records in late 2002, while being managed by Steve Hutton, Kid Rock's former manager. Kill Hannah has since parted company with Hutton." To something like this; "Kill Hannah signed with Atlantic Records in late 2002, while being managed by Steve Hutton, Kid Rock's former manager (the band later appeared along side Kid Rock in the Ludicris/R. Kelly/Kid Rock video for the song "Rockstar) Kill Hannah has since parted company with Hutton." Patrick925 16:48, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

They may not have been hired, They may h ave just been unpaid extras in the video, a lot of extras are. Bottom line is, there is a reason their name isn't on the video. R. Kelly, Ludacris and Kid Rock actually performed on the song and in the video. Kill Hannah was just in the background (in less than 30 seconds of the 7 minute long video), and that's if you add it up 1 to 2 seconds at a time as a member appears here and there. If they actually played on the song it might have been noteworthy. If there was a section on here including there videos. But there isn't a section, and even if there was Kill Hannah did not contribute as music artists to the song or video.Aladdin Zane 23:25, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] lips like morphine

their best song? tell me what you think, im adilghanty

(UTC)Correction. I found two songs crediting K. Finnerty. They are, "Nerve Gas", and "The Trains are So Loud". If that is correct, A. Morganstern has more songs co-credited to him than K. Finnerty. If there is source material that states otherwise, please provide it. --PatrickR

Found one more. "A New Medicine" which makes three. The same number as A. Morgenstern. --PatrickR

I added a POV tag to the Finnerty section. I believe that it is currently sourced enough that it doesn't require this tag, but I think people should discuss the repeated anonymous edits which bias the article. --PatrickR

I also have "A New Medicine" credited to her. --Joe

Thanks Joe. This was added and cited about a month ago. --PatrickR

Clearly Patrick R has no clue on how to not only spell Finerty's name nor understand the history of her. His contributions to this is inaccurate as well as favoring Devine. The information provided by him is not fact.

I have provided citations for the song writing credits. I'm not sure how the article is favorable to Devine other than the fact that he is the creative force and leader of the band, and naturally the article would discuss his accomplishments. Following Wiki policy, my additions and edits have met the criteria for verifiability. (as well as Wiki guidelines for civility on discussion pages). I have repeatedly requested that people discuss this article instead of blanking sections (a Wiki policy violation) and vandalizing sections that are unfavorable to subjects of the article. I have also added a netrality warning to the Finerty section, and invited people to discuss. The goal here is to improve this article with verifiable information, and all of the article meets that. If there is incorrect information that can be verfied, improve the article and sign your name to your edits. Patrick925 20:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Howie Beno did not contribute to the writing of Nerve Gas. He did, however, contribute to All That He Wants, Don't Die Wondering and A New Medicine. I have corrected this. I will take pictures of the booklet to end further dispute. --Joe 13:36 6 July 2006 (PST)

I reverted back to what appears to be the last known "good" article. It seems that somebody accidentally wiped out large sourced sections Patrick925 06:47, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

No, it was not a mistake. Howie Beno was NOT a contributer to Nerve Gas. Only Kerry Finerty was. --Joe 21:52 20 July 2006 (PST)

Joe: I was referring to somebody blanking the entire discography. Patrick925 13:51, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Patrick: lol, sorry. My mistake. I was unaware of that. --Joe 12:17 22 July 2006 (PST)

What is the bullshit in the current members section? should that be removed? Avenged Evanfold 03:03, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, The Beauty in Sinking Ships was released shortly after or before American Jetset in 1999. It was however a collection of recordings and outtakes recorded from about 1995 to 1996. Which I believe is the source of the misconception. I can't confirm this, but someone might go ahead and make a trip to KillHannah.com using the internet wayback machine to check. (Edit whoops) --Robert December 8th, 2006, 1:53pm (EST)

[edit] Garret

Dose anyone know why Garret left the band? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by KHislove (talk • contribs) 15:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

I heared he had a baby. Well not him but his wife.. or.. something. Just a guess from something I heared. CHeck out their myspace and their blogs. It might say something about it. (216.120.198.130 16:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Are they emo?

Kinda seems that way. And I'm not emo-bashing, I'm just wondering if that should go under the Genre label. Kingoomieiii 01:28, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

No they are not emo. they are Alternative / Rock / Electronica. Personaly I don't think "emo" is a lable apropriate for music.--KHislove 19:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, a lot of people do. -->Emo (music)
Kingoomieiii 00:25, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

why does everyone in the whole world call a band emo?! if you ask me..they just talking crap. this band is sooo not emo, they r Alternative rock, electronica and maybe Pop-Rock. Matt 2601 atl (talk) 17:41, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

hey does any one know where to get the other kh. cds in stores i have , until theres nothing left of us , and for never and ever . have their other cds made it to stores . if so can someone PLEASE tell me where to get them . --- killhannahlover666

[edit] Removed section

Do not reinsert unsourced, derogatory material about living persons. FCYTravis 00:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)