Talk:Keyser Söze

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I am not certain this character qualifies as a serial killer. Brutal? Homicidal? Certainly, but those characteristics do not make him a serial killer. There's nothing to suggest that anyone he's killed were due to some psychological compulsion of his. Does anyone oppose removing him from this list?

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[edit] Who is Keyser Soze

Its not confirmed that Spacey was indeed Soze and there is even some dispute by the actors in the film as to who he is. The director I believe also mentioned that he wasn't neccessarily Soze.

There is one thing the movie is clear about - the entire story is a LIE. Any attempt to try to pull any facts out of it is silly because we know that EVERYTHING we know is Verbal's version of events, and since we pretty sure VERBAL does not exist... it would make sense that neither do ANY facts.

The devil's biggest trick is to make the world think he doesn't exist. This story's biggest trick is to make you think ANY of it actually took place.

[edit] Kobayashi

Just a thought - this article states Soze's attorney was called Kobayashi but the revelatory sequence at the end makes it clear that "Kobayashi" was just a name that Kint read on the bottom of Agent Kujan's coffee cup so do we really know what the Pete Postlethwaite character was actually called? Richard Barlow 15:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spoiler changes

I gave Keyser's identity its own warning label after the traditional spoiler tag. While Soze's history is a spoiler in and of itself, his true identity is the main plot twist of the story. King Zeal 22:51, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't see a spoiler tag or warning of any kind. Not that I haven't seen the movie, but there may still be people who haven't seen it and want to, yet stumble across this page. I'm unfamiliar with how to add a spoiler warning - but somebody should probably do it. Beeeej 20:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Might also be a good idea to change the sketch picture under plot revelations since it may be easy to recognize which character in the movie is Keyser Söze. It is under the "revelations" title, but it is however easy to notice without "intention". I don't know how to do this, so if someone would feel inclined to do so, please do Andregulbrandsen 00:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Could've been a little quicker, I wanted to see that movie you asshats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.200.43.230 (talk) 23:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Does Keyser Soze exist?

I think the line In the final scenes of the movie, it is revealed that Verbal himself is Keyser Soze needs to be changed since it's POV. There is a strong implication in the film that this is the case, but it's not certain and is open to other interpretations. One of which is that Keyser Soze doesn't actually exist at all - since practically all scenes in the film are Verbal's narration, there's no proof that any of them actually took place. — SteveRwanda 12:01, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I see where you're coming from but the argument of whether any of the film happened due to Kint's fabrication is just too much of a nuisance. The line needs to be drawn. Satchfan 07:31, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
That's nonsense. The story's biggest strength is it's ability to make you refuse to believe it's a lie simply because it's such a good story. This is where the movie really becomes greater than traditional narrative. Like 'American Beauty', it makes you willfully ignore the facts of the narrative because you have affection for the story.thumpinc May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Keyser Soze and Dr. Dolittle

Is a dog in the "Dr. Dolittle" movie sayin "Keyser Soze??? I THINK SO

[edit] Verifiability/Orginal Research issues

Hi all -- I'm flagging this article for failing to follow Wikipedia's policies on verifiability and original research. In short, the culture impact, meaning of name, trivia, and media sections all need to be cited to reliable independent sources. --Tcatts 20:00, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Your opinion has been noted and rejected. This article details a fictional character, the only source of information available being a copyrighted motion picture script. The claims cannot be verified.


[edit] The Facts

Contrary to the view stated here, there are real "facts" that can be obtained from the movie. For example the opening and closing scenes. The assasination, the interrogation and others. From scrict analysis of this, it is entirely possible to theorise that kobayashi was in fact the master mind and verbal was sent to do his work. In fact there are quotes that allude to this in the movie. Something like, "You think you can catch Keyser Soze? You think a guy like that comes this close to getting fingered and sticks his head out? If he comes up for anything, it will be to get rid of me.", "He (Keaton) wasn't behind anything. It was the lawyer.", "We were there to buy a man, you simple boy. A witness. I don't know his name. A witness who knew the Devil.", " Keyser Soze - or whatever you want to call him - knows where I am right now. He's got the front burner under' your ass to let me go so he can scoop me up ten minutes later.", "This guy (Verbal) is protected - From up on high by the prince of fucking darkness." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.151.14.101 (talk • contribs) 11:45, 15 April 2007.

Citing quotes from the film is just Original Research. You need to find reliable sources for other people presenting this idea if you want to include it in wikipedia. Wibbble 12:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaning up this article

I've given this article an adequate lead that actually discusses all of the major points of the article as per Wikipedia:Lead section. The remainder of the article is going to need major cleanup, however - the article is currently clearly structured to withhold the fact that Verbal is Soze until as far into the article. as possible. This is not good encyclopedia writing. Phil Sandifer 13:44, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] lulz

I don't know if this would be worth mentioning in the "cultural impact" section, but in response to debates surrounding supposed "spoilers" regarding the seventh and final Harry Potter book (just hours to go, nooch), some folks on various forums have started to use the satirical phrase "Snape is Keyser Söze" (example). Even if it isn't worth mentioning in the article, I thought some of the people who follow this talk page might get a kick out if it. - Ugliness Man 08:10, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

I believe the IPA pronunciation is wrong. Not only is "ö" pronounced with a /ø/ sound rather than /o/ in both Turkish and Hungarian, you can actually hear Hungarian characters in the film pronouncing "Söze" with an /ø/ sound. American English doesn't define the pronunciation of non-English names. JIP | Talk 17:52, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kint made Söze up?

The latest change to this article states that Verbal Kint made Keyser Söze up. I don't think this is true. There is at least one source who has heard of Keyser Söze from someone other than Verbal Kint, and that's the police officer who faxes the picture to Kujan. I still believe in the most common interpretation, that Verbal Kint is Keyser Söze. JIP | Talk 19:46, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baudelaire

I've self-reverted here because Arcayne believes that my citation of Le Joueur Généreux constitutes original research [1]. I think it's fine as it is, but I'd like further input so I've called an RFC. --Tony Sidaway 10:43, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

"It's a devil of a job being Satan. No one knows just how much devilry is required" (The Telegraph): "Unfortunately, Satan isn't displaced so easily. He may, indeed, be thoroughly enjoying his temporary lack of profile, for as the Kevin Spacey character says in The Usual Suspects (albeit without acknowledgements to Baudelaire): 'The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled is convincing the world he didn't exist.'"[2]
Will this do? It establishes that someone else has made the connection between Baudelaire and The Usual Suspects. --Krieghabicht (talk) 12:16, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, there are dozens of references to the Baudelaire quote in discussions of The Usual Suspects. However the actual quote itself is what makes it clear that the screenwriter is using a Baudelaire quote. --Tony Sidaway 12:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
If you source it to the DVD commentary as well, then that makes it even clearer – the filmmakers admitted it. --Krieghabicht (talk) 12:36, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. That's enough for me. I've restored the Baudelaire and added the citation above with a quote from the reviewer. --Tony Sidaway 12:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Its enough for me, too. I wasn't opposed to the usage of the connection, I just wanted it cited within the scope of someone speaking about the film. That has been accomplished. Yay! - Arcayne (cast a spell) 17:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Kobayashi's Nationality

Where was 'Kobayashi' from? The only known source in the film which indicates this is 'Redfoot' who calls him a limey, which means that he is British. But depite Postlewaithe being a Brit, his accent in the film is certainly not. His name suggest he is Japanese and his accent has an Eastern tinge to it - a mix of Oriental and Indian. In the article, someone has stated his nationality as Pakistani - someone is surely having a laugh. There's no proof whatsoever to suggest he is Pakistani. 80.195.166.92 (talk) 16:05, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wording: "Kingpin"

In the introduction, it's stated that

Söze is an underworld kingpin [...]

I'm not a native speaker, so I searched around a bit, and found everything - but no useful explanation of that word. In most dictionaries, it seems to be just a technical term for some mechanical things. The only helpful definition of the word was in Wiktionary - which is linked heavily indirect: Mark the word "kingpin", search with google, go to Wikipedia, click through on "there is an article on Wiktionary" - this link can break at any node. My suggestion: Explain the word, use another word or link the word (to wiktionary, because Wikipedia won't really help you on this one). Regards, -- 80.136.76.11 (talk) 06:35, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of the name?

There is that old farytale called "The emperor's new pants". As far as I can remember from my childhood, It's about two merry conmen, who trick an emperor into beliving they can taylor clothes, wich only the smart people can see. They take the emperors money, and present him with non-existent clothery. The emperor -embarrased that he can't see the clothes- poses as if he'd see them, and goes out in public naked, where his folk begins to laugh that the "Emnperor has no pants on" Now, in German "The pants of the Emperor" translate to "Der Kaisers Hose", wich is pronounced almost exactly as "Keyser Söze". Think of it: - Invisibility as by Verbal - Conmen involved - The conned protagonist doesn't see the plot untill the catharsis.

What's your opinion? Can the name be a pun on this story? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.99.84.91 (talk) 15:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)