Talk:Kevin Mitnick

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Contribution credits and vanities

I put this in here, for the record, in case this article gets longer. Most Mitnick stories, including his own, tell of the penetration by Mitnick and his friends of what is called, reverentially, "The Ark" at Digital Equipment Corporation. Although rare at that time outside of DEC, inside there was a whole network of computers with addresses using up to six RAD-50 characters. ARK:: was the address of the RSTS development system. It was nothing special, just another PDP-11/70, and certainly not the sanctum sanctorum of Digital software that he makes it sound. Most operating system people in DEC at the time thought downloading old RSTS sources was a hilarious waste of time. I worked on a better OS on KERMIT:: and ALIEN::, that RSX guy, Ortolan88 05:37 Jan 28, 2003 (UTC)

Removed:

"Today, Kevin Mitnick is widely regarded as a pioneering cracker whose prosecution by the government was overblown to the point of injustice."

See Wikipedia:Avoid weasel terms.

-- Cyan 09:39, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I added information about the 2600 documentary, freedom downtime, links to freekevin.com, freedomdowntime.com, and an image from his company website to the right of the page. --drago9034 12:30, Nov 9, 2003

In view of the quality of later edits, and the rather strange allegations made by 219.39.... I suggest removing all his edits, unless he/she comes up with some sources to confirm what he writes. Was it possible that the revert before mine was intended to revert all the anon edits but failed because of the change of IP address? DJ Clayworth 18:48, 21 May 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] "Hacker" n "Cracker"

The first sentence calls him a "hacker", even though he fits the definition of "cracker" (including the definition given by Wikipedia). He doesn't fit the primary definition of "hacker", as given by the Wikipedia or that most any hacker would use.

I don't see how "cracker" is a "weasel term". Wikipedia defines cracking as "the act of compromising the security of a system without permission from an authorized party" -- which is precisely what Mitnick did. That doesn't seem any more weasely than, say, calling Al Capone a "gangster". It's what he did.

It's also confusing: it seems to imply that hacking is a criminal activity, yet the (primary) definition of "hacker" doesn't mention criminal activity.

The "hacker" article lists him as a "notable hacker[] who ran afoul of a government", which is exceedingly generous. At the very least, I think we should add an adjective here to distinguish what he did from what most hackers do -- "security hacker", for example, though that still feels too generous. Why can't we just call him a "security cracker", like he is?


Perhapse I'm wrong, but I don't think the "weasel term" comment refered to the term "cracker" so much as the context of the term, i.e. "is widely regarded as"

They are both inappropriate and should be avoided. Cracker and Phreak are both jargon. Very few people know what the term means, everyone knows the term hacker in the sense used here. It is what the little runt called himself. Mitnick and his like have unfortunately captured this word now. The term hacker means computer criminal in the popular mind. The OED (2nd ed) contains both definitions, it does not contain cracker defined in this way and is pretty unlikely to. --Gorgonzilla 01:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
"Hacker" should be removed from the opening description, as the original poster noted, it incorrectly implies that "hacking" is a crime. He should be described as having illegally accessed corporate computer equipment, or some similarly descriptive phrase. I suppose Gorgonzilla is correct that "cracker" is too jargony. -Pete 04:17, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kevin was a Malicious Hacker =

The term hacker is ther term adopted by the media in general and by the hackers themselves. I am entirely familliar with the MIT use of the term, I worked at MIT. It is unfortunate that the crackers have appropriated this term but they have been successful in doing so. Attempting to redefine the term at this stage is futile.

If you want to refine the term, point out that Kevin was frequently vindictive and malicious. He is also pretty unrepentant, he still whines about the length of the prison term he got, I don't think it was enough. Kevin is still a hussler, its just that his latest scam, security consulting is at least legal even if it is difficult to see how any client could trust him.

HallamBaker

[edit] Mitnick nukes the world

"while also held in solitary confinement for eight months "in order to prevent a massive nuclear strike from being initiated by me via a prison payphone." The nuclear strike would hit New York city and surrounding areas and also hit the outskirts of South Korea by whistling the secret passcode in to the receiver"

What the hell? Is this Dr. Strangelove crap real? Gamaliel 02:43, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I found reference to Mitnick's assertion that there were unreasonable fears that he could whistle into a phone and start a nuclear war, but I could find no reference to the NYC and South Korea bits, so I removed them. If someone wishes to reinstate them, proper attribution of who said or asserted it should be included. AdmN 18:56, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)


sorry to rain on the parade, but the following section section appears to be taken from here: http://www.takedown.com/bio/mitnick.html

"It was the fifth time that Mitnick had been apprehended for a computer crime, and the case attracted nationwide attention because, in an unusual plea bargain, he agreed to one year in prison and six months in a counseling program for his computer "addiction." It was a strange defense tactic, but a federal judge, after initially balking, bought the idea that there was some sort of psychological parallel between the obsession Mitnick had for breaking in to computer systems and an addict's craving for drugs"


This is interesting.

Isn't it ? :)
I once read something that suggested that some people who break into secure/forbidden things (like a network) enjoy it the same way some guys enjoy penetrating a virgin. Armedblowfish 22:52, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3 years

From what I know, he was actually not allowed to use a computer up until 2004. He was supposed to be banned from using any computer or cellular phone for 3 years after his latest release from Jail, in 2001.

also, in my opinion, the physical isolation from any type of computer, phone, etc. was seen as failure on the part of the authorities, who failed to catch Mitnick for so many years. aside form that, even though I don't suggest that anybody take up a career in hacking or cracking, i must say the man was a genius. --Zeerus 01:27, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

I could be wrong, since my knowledge of such terms is limited, but isn't what Mitnick did normally known as "phreaking?" And if so, shouldn't the article refer to him as a "phreaker" rather than "cracker" or "hacker?"

He was both, but the majority of his illegal activity centered around breaking into computer equipment rather than manipulating telephones, so "phreaker" would be a secondary label. Gary D Robson 22:17, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
In one of the books about him (don't remember which one), it detailed how he was able to provision himself telephone features such as Caller ID through both social engineering and accessing the switches, before those features were available to the public; accessing the switches would certainly fall into phreaking. And he and one of his buddies would reprogram the switches in order to win dial-in radio contests. MeekMark 02:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I placed the article in Category:2600: The Hacker Quarterly since Mitnick spoke at HOPE, writes articles, etc... Paul 07:11, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The supposed bus hack as a kid

Smacks of what I know of Bill Gross personally. And that he was 5 years too late for it ... - Sparky 16:02, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kevin Mitnick as a ham radio operator

One thing I wanted to put in the article was that Kevin Mitnick is an amateur radio operator. Where do you think it would fit? Ryan 23:01, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Kevin D. Mitnick, N6NHG. General class amateur radio license. (Information from the FCC Database) --147.126.46.147 01:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] That's no Genius!

In rebutle to the above, Mitnick is no genius: Many, many people have the knowledge to do what he did; Mitnick used his knowledge for breaking the law and getting caught and going to jail, instead of doing something constructive and making money. That's no genius, that's one stupid dummy. (Not signed)

Well, he's pulling probably $3-500k a year in speaking fees right now, plus royalties on 2 books - one a best seller. That's a lot better than a senior Unix admin, right? Is there a bit of anger there...perhaps? Wanna tell us about it? 24.126.126.105 06:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Genius as defined by WP is "Great intelligence, who shows an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative or original work." well the first part is inarguably correct the second part is the dispute, one could easily argue he was neither creative nor original. I think the most correct term would be extraordinarly cunning.Colin 8 20:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No bail hearing

How about the fact that Kevin was kept in jail without a Bail hearing? Not "without bail"- lots of criminals have bail denied, but until Mitnick, every accused person was allowed to have a Bail Hearing.

....from the transcript of the March 30, 1998 hearing:

[Defense counsel making reference to the bail motion while addressing other motions currently pending before the Court.]
Mr. Randolph: Inasmuch as I have filed and I believe the Clerk has set a motion to have bail set on behalf of my client and that is set--
The Court: I am not going to give your client bail.
Mr. Randolph: I think the matter is set for next Monday, your Honor, at 1:30.
The Court: Well, I may take it under submission without oral argument because I am not going to give him bail.

also-

The Bail Reform Act of 1984 ("Act"), mandates that pretrial detention is permissible only where:
"after a hearing pursuant to the provisions of [18 U.S.C. § 3142(f)], the judicial officer finds that no condition or combination of conditions will reasonably assure the appearance of the person as required and the safety of any other person and the community." 18 U.S.C. § 3142(e).
In this case, the district court's order was substantively flawed in that it failed to find that no conditions will reasonably assure his appearance or the safety of the community, as required by substantive due process. Furthermore, the district court's order was procedurally flawed in that the court refused to hold a hearing during which evidence relevant to this determination could be presented.

12.110.196.19 03:16, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who is Suzy Thunder?

How does she relate to Kevin Mitnick again? It says in the article that she was the one who told authorities that Mitnick could cause a nuclear war by whistling into a telephone. I do not think this information is accurate.

Searching Google Video for hacking yields a 50 min video about hacking, and in it Kevin Mitnick himself says that during one of his trials, the prosecutor told the judge that if he [Kevin Mitnick] had access to the payphone inmates used to contact their families, he could start a nuclear war.

At this time this movie can be found at,

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5512733670886412215&q=hacking&hl=en

Susan Thunder was a girl enamored of Kevin in the late eighties. He blew her off and she got pissed and started blabbing. She's now a prostitute in 'Vegas and does pretexting on the side for extra cash.

stories, including his own, tell of the penetration by Mitnick and his friends of what is called, reverentially, "The Ark" at Digital Equipment Corporation. Although rare at that time outside of DEC, inside there was a whole network of computers with addresses using up to six RAD-50 characters. ARK:: was the address of the RSTS development system. It was nothing special, just another PDP-11/70, and certainly not the sanctum sanctorum of Digital software that he makes it sound. Most operating system people in DEC at the time thought downloading old RSTS sources was a hilarious waste of time. I worked on a better OS on KERMIT:: and ALIEN::, that RSX guy, Ortolan88 05:37 Jan 28, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] What did he do?

I know this might sound like a stupid question, but the article doesn't actually describe what he did, beyond a vague reference to some companies and that he was convicted of wirefraud. Much more space is dedicated to his incarceration than his actual crimes. Seems to me that this is something that needs to be added. I doubt that I am qualified to do so.

Porphyrous 15:59, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


Dude, that's right but if you want to know that details READ the damn book ! I just finished it yesterday (Takedown) and it explain all in details. Excellent book written by markoff & shimomura.

Do not read Takedown. It's a fictitious load of bull. You want to know what Mitnick did and how he was persecuted? Find and watch the documentary Freedom Downtime from 2600 films.
Yes, if you are interested in a vitriolic paranoid's opinion, presented as fact. 72.198.221.25 09:15, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More content anyone?

I've seen two hour documentaries over this guy. Surely someone can cram more crap in here? It never mentions any of the stuff he did. Not only does it fail to explain why he's infamous (other than he committed wire fraud, and if I did that, I'd probably not be famous, right?), but the seemingly second-most important thing is that a bunch of people deface his website. That should be close to the last thing in the article because it really doesn't say much about him. Unfortunately, we need sources for everything. So someone needs to pick up a book and read it. Seriously, this article is disappointing for what I expected. I expected to learn things I didn't already know. Instead, I'm finding I know things that aren't listed here (though I can't add it because I can't cite "Ziggythehamster's brain").

Thanks to anyone who can help.

Ziggy the Hamster 05:23, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

It seems odd that this article doesn't mention the 1994 Christmas attack against Tsutomu Shimomura. See http://www.totse.com/en/hack/hack_attack/hacker03.html for information concerning that attack. 66.134.227.18 09:33, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mitnick in Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories

He isn't credited in the credits! It musn't be right! Please respond! ProSieben 15:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just for clarity...

I'm splitting the references to him in popular culture into their own section, leaving "Recent activities" specifically for things that he's done. TankRamp 13:04, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] vandals

some retard actually used the words "haxor" and "pwned" Wikipedia needs a retard pole to keep editors away

it may also need a giant smacking stick for people who use bad language to complain about bad language.

Edgeways 04:54, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I must say

This article is remarkably poorly written. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.250.176.23 (talk) 18:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC).


[edit] Where did the books go?

Weren't there articles covering John Markoff and Tsutomu Shimomura's Takedown(missing), and Jonathan Littman(missing)'s The Fugitive Game(missing). There are no deletion logs. Weird. I could have sworn... --Lexein 07:01, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fake IDs?

The article, as it reads right now, makes it sound like Mitnick spent 5 years in jail for having 4 fake IDs.

[edit] Cleanup

I think this article needs a complete overhaul and rewrite. Instead of just tearing it apart, I'm going to propose my major changes here for discussion. If no one has any objections, I will go ahead. To start:

  • The entire "Skills" section should be removed. It is completely unsourced and unencyclopedic.
  • The "Downfall" section should be renamed to "FBI arrest" and reduced to what there are currently sources for.
  • The "Controversy" section should be rewritten and unsourced material removed.
  • The "Attacks on Mitnick's sites" section should be removed. It is not relevant to a biographical article, and it is poorly sourced.
  • The "Recent activities" section should be rewritten as prose, and all unsourced material should be removed.
  • Anything that is sourced to http://www.freekevin.com should be removed because that site now appears to be down.
  • The "In popular culture" section should be rewritten as prose, and all unsourced material should be removed.

After all of that, I am willing to find neutral, reliable sources and begin rewriting the article. Thoughts? --Mus Musculus (talk) 19:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Removing things cited to web sources which are now down is not standard procedure, afaik. That is the reason we have accessdate fields in the citation templates. In all likelihood the site is still available from the internet archive. Finding extant sources would be ideal, but there isn't, imo, any reason to remove the info.—WAvegetarian (talk) 19:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
Good point. So are you more of the opinion that we can leave most information while we seek out sources? One strategy would be to only remove unsourced material that violates WP:BLP. For example, we would not want to state that Mitnick engaged in any illegal activities that we don't immediately have a source for. --Mus Musculus (talk) 19:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

This article is terrible, one of the first things it states is that "he is considered a criminal by some, but has also gained many supporters who generally argue he was made a scapegoat and that his punishment was excessive" This is a huge POV, and also weasel words at the same time. First is "he is considered a criminal by some" this is clearly designed to give the impression he isn't really a criminal and that implication is furthured by "but he has also gained many supporters". He is by definition a criminal by having been convicted of crimes, and who are these "many" supporters?, how does the person who edited this know what they generally argue?, where are the citations for this statement? and who do these "many supporters" say he was a scapegoat for?. I am going to change this to "Though Mitnick has been convicted of computer related crimes and possesion of several forged identification documents, his supporters argue his punishment was excessive".

[edit] Early life - removing anti-Semitic content

"Kevin Mitnick had a Jewish upbringing."

What does this statement mean, beyond simply claiming that he is Jewish? There is no citation, and no further details provided.

Why is this statement relevant here at all? Given the descriptions of unscrupulous conduct in other parts of this article, it appears that the intention is an anti-Semitic insinuation.

So I am removing this comment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ygale (talk • contribs) 09:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I understand your concern. It wouldn't be the first time antisemitism has been skewed under the guise of something else. However, I am Jewish myself and would be horrified by such a thought. Kevin Mitnick isn't as bad as the press and court portrayed him, and today he uses his talents to help others.
Fact is that wikipedia articles often bring origins and religion in their articles. Kevin Mitnick is Jewish, demanded kosher food in prison and after being released in 1989, a therapist suggested he spend some time at a treatment center for addicts. Thus, Kevin spent several months at Beit T'Shuvah, a treatment center for Jewish ex-cons with addiction problems and no place to go.
So you might leave it out if you want. I think the guy is of a great intelligence and just proves another great Jewish mind.

[edit] Myths

I am a little confused that "Hacked into Tsutomu Shimomura's home computer" is listed as a myth, when the citation to support this is a link to the site and seems to indicate that Mr Mitnick did in fact break into Mr Shimomura's system. So my question is: is this incorrectly placed as a myth, or is there a different citation to support it being a myth? Jockm (talk) 16:43, 4 April 2008 (UTC)