Talk:Kelso, Scottish Borders

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Etymology of 'Kelso'

There seems to be ongoing contention over whether of not Kelso came from the Gaelic Cealsach, or at the very least some disagreement over whether the Gaelic form should be included in the article.
I found a page regarding the family name 'Kelsay', which includes a mention of Kelso as a place name. It says, according to James Morton's Monastic Annals of Teviotdale (1832), Kelso comes from Chalkheugh, locally pronounced Cawkheuch, Calc (british)/cealc (anglo-saxon) = chalk and how (anglo-saxon)/heugh (scots). No mention of Gaelic. Looking at Scots language I see it is also known as Lowland Scots, so I looked at Scottish lowlands, and found that in Gaelic, the Scottish Lowlands are a' Ghalldachd, meaning roughly 'the non-Gaelic region'.
From that, I infer that Cealsach may very well be what it is called in Gaelic, but is NOT where the name came from, nor is it what residents of the town have ever called it. Perhaps it is common knowledge in Scotland that it is simply the name in Gaelic, but the current placement and wording in the article would lead others less knowledgeable to believe it is in fact the etymology of the word. Therefore, the Gaelic reference should be reworded to reflect this, or removed entirely.
I will, however, leave it to others to change the article - although I have family from (and others still in) the area, I do not know it myself, and perhaps others have information i do not. Scottr76 18:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, Kelso does not come from Gaelic. That is not the implication of having the Gaelic name. Although Gaelic was probably never spoken by the people of Kelso as a whole, putting Gaelic names in articles like this derives from the fact that Kelso is part of Scotland, a nation now officially (if not actually of course) bilingual for which Gaelic is the historical national language ... this is irrespective of any particular regional history. I'm just explaining the reasonings of those who put the Gaelic name there; I've no desire to enforce this where there is local antipathy or where it is perceived to undermine the regional identity of the Scotland's eastern marches. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 05:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

In his book "Kelsae" which is an history of the Kelso area, Alistair Moffat (Scottish historian from Kelso) elaborates on the calcium deposits in the town, and provides historical references to the calcium, and puts forth quite confidently that the name came from those calcium mineral deposits. In fact, he said that in the past, one particular patch of road was chalky white. Calce-heugh,... I could see that.

Going even further back using Alistair Moffat, Calceheugh came from the Brythonic Chalchvynyd, a name often mistakenly applied to various locations in southern Britain. ---G.T.N. (talk) 00:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Kelsae"

I live in Kelso and I have never heard anyone call Kelso "Kelsae" unless they are putting on an exaggerated Scottish accent, or being ironic. Should that really be there? --The Cat with 2 Heads (talk) 18:53, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Alistair Moffat

Alistair Moffat is a native, a historian, and an author. His book on the town is named "Kelsae," and he says that is what the locals call it. He also says Kelso ultimately derives from "Calchvynyd." See "Arthur and the Lost Kingdoms," or "Kelsae." ---G.T.N. (talk) 01:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

You're obviously not from kelso at all, i'm from hawick and everyone pronounces it kelsae, even folk from jethart! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.94.120 (talk) 21:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

That's what I just said... ---G.T.N. (talk) 00:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)