Talk:Kartvelian peoples

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This article has to be closed, cause it has no sence, there are no such people as Kartvelians, because "Georgians" allready mean all the ethnographial groups living in Georgia. Georgians incule Mingrelians and Svans, and that's why there is no sence for having two articles "Kartvelians" and "Georgians", they are just synonims. Kartvel is the name which Georgians call themselves, and Mingrelians and Svans (also some Lazs) are included in this people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.117.43.248 (talk) 21:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

To reply to this: there is a justifiable distinction to draw between the two meanings of "Kartvelian". The Georgians, of course, do use the term to describe themselves, but in Western academia it is generally used to denote all the speakers of the South Caucasian languages. Again, it is also justifiable to split up these speakers into different ethnic groups, though, of course, there is genuine debate about how far we should do so. I believe our article on the Mingrelians currently describes them as a "subethnic group" of the Georgians - different sources afford the Mingrelians and the Svans different degrees of ethnic separation from the Georgians. It is all quite knotty. But in general, you do get a lot of sources that describe, say, the Laz, as Kartvelian but not Georgian. Hence this disambig. Hopefully that's reasonably clear. Moreschi (talk) (debate) 21:54, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I understand that Laz and all other South-Caucasian languages should be described as Kartvelian and not Georgian, of course , I didn't argue in that. But you should understand: linguistics and cultural antropology are different things, linguistical, Georgians have 5 languages, Georgian, Mingrelian, Svan, Laz (the Lazs of Sarpi reffer themselves as Georgians) and the Bats, whitch is not a Kartvelian language but is spoken by Georgians (you won*t find a Bats who will say that he's not Georgian). Kartvelian languages are called so because all these 4 languages are spoken by the Kartvels (=Georgians). And when you write Kartvelian peoples, it's not correct, cause Kartvelians are Georgians, that's why these languages that are spoken by Georgians are called Kartvelian.

Some scollars can't see the difference between linguistical view and ethnological view, but believe me it's different. Mingrelians and Svans do speak different languages, but the level of difference between Mingrelians and other Georgians, or Mingrelians and Svans is the same as Kakhetians and Ratchians, or Gurians and Khewsurians. And ethnologically (from the cultural view) Mingrelians and Svans are ethnoraphical groups and not Sub-Ethnicities. Culturaly and Ethnologicaly Mingrelians, Svans, the Bats, and a part of Laz are Kartvelians, which is a sinonym for Georgian in cultural antropology, these two words are no sinonyms just in linguistics, that's all :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.117.43.248 (talk) 20:44, 13 April 2008 (UTC)