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Contents 1 Reply 2 Fuedal system 3 references 3.1 Krishna Deva Raya 3.2 Reply 3.3 Reply 3.4 Reply 3.5 Kapu history 3.6 Kapu article Standards 3.7 Surname of Madhura kings 3.8 Balija origin 3.9 Kapus -Present backwardness and political awakening among them 3.10 Added the present social chnages and political awakeing among Kapus 3.11 Appreciation 3.12 Social and economical issues

[edit] Reply

• Here in wikipedia we state what scholars and historian have said in their books...this is not a research forum where u put details only when u have all the proofs..if that is the case the it would be impossible to fill anything in these article...here we are stating what scholas like Thurston,Sepuri Bhaskar,Suravram,Etukuri,Russell have stated in theri books along wiht references...so mentioning the same is not wrong...

Its up to the users to bring up proofs and says the true facts...So Kapunadu pls refrain from doing uncessary edits..Do refer Balija kula Chariatra and other history books before vandalsing this article John Rambo 02:03, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

1. This is nonsense, forget historians and all this supposition. The Raja of anegundi is the direct descendent of aravidu dynasty, his daughter is an MLA from Gangavati and is married to Alluri Soma Raju, who is a surgeon in Gangavati and is a Kshatriya Raju. The family says they are Rajus and only marry Rajus so stop this nonsense. Just take a trip to Hampi and ask around about the family, why waste your time reading theories. The most likely explantaion to the connection to balijas is that kings in the past used to have multiple wives and one of them may have been a balija while the other was a kshatriya, otherwise this whole thing about Chintalapati, and alluri being Balijas may have also been BS. So please stop putting the Aravidu dynasty and Krishna Deva Raya as Kota balijas, it is totally wrong and you look desperate and foolish, you even said that there is no evidence to prove it so why do you keep insisting on it?--Historyfreak69 (talk) 02:37, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

@@@ Dude whoever you are you got completely excited about some piece of information.The current ruler of Anegondi is a Kshatriya true.. But he is an adopted son... The original lineage or line of Kings that belonged to the royal fmaily of Vijaynagar are no more as they did not have a son to continue the bloodline... Please stop posting BS and verify your facts... Check the link....http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/ips/a/anegundi.html

And how did the Rajus get into the Vijayanagar Dysasities which have Yadava,Bunt and Balija/Kapu background is .. Krishnadevaraya defeated the Gajapati's in order to make truce and not loose their kingdom the Gajapatis offered the pricess of the Gajapati Kingdom in allialce to Krishnadeva raya... She was the third wife of the Raya... this is how the Rajus stepped into the Vijayangar Dynasities...

Krishnadeva raya had two kids from his first wife a son and a daughter .. the son was blinded and killed by his minsters conpiracy while the daughter was married of to Rama Raya of the Araveedu Clan... hope this clears of all the doubts about Vijayanagar Kings... As a matter of fact the only real Kshatriyas who ruled Andhra were the Kalchuris of the Palnadu fame...

Rashtrakutas,Telugu Chodas,Kakateeya,Vijayanagar were all shudra kingdoms... The Rajus have matrimonial links to Chalukyas... and another kingdom that can be linked to the Rajus although no proofs are there are the Ikshvakus...

Apart from that Satavahanas,Vishnukondis,Brihaptilyas,Ananda Gothrikas,Eastern Chalukyas all of them are not Raju related... please donmt every make the mistake of ever cliaming them you will make a fool of yourself...

During his recent visit to Krishna Dt Srikakulam the current ruler of Anegondi mentioned they are descedants of balija Naidus the article is there in Eeenadu and andhra jyothi why would he do that ????

Here are the surnames with the gotrams of kapu's, compare them with the inscriptions state were the gotrams and surnames of the ruling clans:

• Surname:-------Kapu Gotra:-------Ruler gotras:
• Chodagam-------Pamidipandla
• Chodisetty-----Paidipala--------all telugu chodas were kasyapa and used chodaraju as thier surname
• Chodisetty-----Godavari
• Dalavayi-------Thammineni-------Atreya
• Kathari--------Pydipala---------Atreya
• Sammeta-------Varalakshmi----Atreya

Unless there was a mistake, there is no correlation between kapu/balija surnames and gotras and the ruling clans mentioned. So where is the evidence?--Historyfreak69 (talk) 18:37, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

@@@@@@ You are really turning on the heat dude and making all you postings a big joke...Kasyapa,Athreya,Vashishta are gothrams which are very much part of the Kapu community like Paidapaala and Janakula.. If you cant beelieve it get on to any marriage burea and check some brides and grooms andf you will see these Gothrams... And the Madurai Nayaks who are Kota Balijas (I hope you dont want to contest this ) surname is Garikepati and Gothram is Kasyapa... as another proof of the Kasyapa...

The Raju community doestn have a patent on these Gothrams... The only castes which share these gothrams are Kapu,Raju and Bramhins...(Reddys/Velams donmot have these) whch brings us to anohter question about the origins about the Raju caste itself most historians think it is a military section of the Kapus which got separated form the mother caste... Enjoy this piece of trivia...

Another price of very vaulable inforamation that you need to know is the Telugu Chodas mentioned themselves as Shudras... since when did the Rajus become Shudras.. ???

Stop dreaming and wake up ... stop claiming and please stop having the superiority complexion that you have... a small community like rajus cannot rule Andhra in the form of so many Dynasities it was the preserve of powerful indeginious Agragarian communities like Kapu,Balija,Reddy and velama all of them Shudras not Kshatriyas and all of them are proud of their Shudra Status... And if at all they every linked themselves it was to the Lunar Dynasity not the Solar to which the rajus claim to descend from...

Buddy do you have any idea how many powerful dynasities the Yadavas produced ???

Manu Dharma states that a person is not a Kshtriya by birth it is by occupation that is the reason most of them claim stauts of Kshatriya

[edit] Fuedal system

I think every caste was interrelated and drew from each other. Telugu caste system was more fuedal than the fundamental system found in the north. The fact that all these communites don't have very much difference in customs and genetics would support this hypothesis. This is what I think the feudal system of ancient Andhra was, based on all the various accounts of the functioning of the various castes.

• The farmer was called a Kapu
• The farmers were divided into a Pedda Kapu and a Chinna Kapu. (Big farmer, small farmer)
• Amongst the Pedda Kapus a Chief (Reddi) was picked.
• Amongst the Chinna Kapus, the soldiers were recruited.
• The ones that protected the crops = (Panta Kapu)
• The ones that protected the village = (Vurru Kapu)
• The one that protected the region = (Pranta Kapu)
• Amongst the soldiers a general (Nayak) would be picked.
• The Special Forces amongst the military were called Ayyaraka, Mudiraj, Ontari, Boyar, and Munurru Kapu, also some came from tribal communities.
• The financial leaders were called Shettys (Balija, Komati), tax collectors were called chouwdrys (Kamma). The Komatis seperated from the Balijas because they were influenced by fundamental Hinduism.
• The ministry was comprised of various members of the military (Nayak) and administration (Reddi, Velama), and financial leaders (Balija, Chowudry, Komati)
• As the territory controlled became larger the leader was called a king (Raju)
• When the kings who came from various backgrounds became long established or were influenced by the resurgence of Hinduism, in order to legitimise and secure their rule claimed to be Kshatriyas.

So I don't believe any of the castes, especially the dominante castes that are found today, originated in isolation. In the end we are all the same Telugu race. Our Telugu race was mentioned in the Mahabharata as Andhras, a mixed race tribe that originally lived around the Ganges and later migrated south of the Vindhyas, in the outskirts of Arya varta. I would urge people who write about the origins of their castes to keep this in mind and stop trying to claim to be connected directly to the Aryan tribes of the north. Not that we have no connection to them, its just that we have our own history and story, we have more influence linguistically, culturally and ethnically from our Dravidian ancestors than the Aryan ancestors. We don't need to keep saying we were Indo-Aryans who migrated to the south, it sounds silly, especially when you look in the mirror and say it. If anyone has a better explanation or disagree please share your thoughts and evidence for your views.--Kapunadu (talk) 04:06, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

@@@@@@@@@@@@ The kapu naidus are blood brother's of the Kunbis of Maharashtra,Kurmis of Bihar,Marathas,Patels of Gujarat... And if they are Aryans then so are we...

And if you are thinking that Aryans are Jats,Rajputs the you need to wake up... rajputs are huns and so are jats... as a matter of fact the Kammas might be closely reated to Jats because they claim Kambhoja origin... and if you have a pre conceived notation that Arayans are all fare then you are even more worse in your assumption... Pleas stop using the name called kapunadu... if you dont know any history about your caste then please stop using the name you are a disgrace and a big time looser...

[edit] references

My Dear friends why do you so much of hue and cry pon this issue. Please read the following link about the Sangama and Tulu dynasty people written by none other than the collector of Kadapa dt in 1850s :CP Brown (Also known as the writor of Telugu-English dictionary). Know that Sangama, Saluva and Tuluvas are Yadavas, Krishna devaraya himself had stressed this out.[1]

@@ The article does not say anything about Sangama,saluva and Tuluva dynasities as being Kapu/Balija... So your argument is irrelevant..It however doies mention Krishna Deva Raya might be a Balija but its not an established fact and there are no evidences for this...

• • If it is not a fact than why put it as a fact, Krishna Deva Raya was a tuluva, tuluvas are supposedly yadavas, how can he be a balija? why dont you just say that some historians think he may be, instead of saying yes he is a balija of dasi subcaste?--Kapunadu (talk) 11:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
• Thurston refers to the cultivating class as kapu vol 3 pg 5-6. Kampo is the oriya form of Kapu, agriculturalists. Pg 222 Kapus or reddies are the great caste of cultivators, farmers and squireens (a soldier in the service of a knight, often as his apprentice) in the telugu country.
• Vol 4 pg 2 kapu (cultivator caste) pg 138 kurubas were originally kapus, pg 261 kapu, reddi vokkaliga are cultivators, pg 186..the dommaras are divided into reddi or kapu (ie cultivators),
• pg 194…the following gradation in the social scale:

1. Velama dora= Velma esquire
2. Kamma varu= Mr. kamma
3. Kapu = plain kapu, without an honorific suffix

• Vol 3 pg 94, kammas are the military branch of the kapus, pg 223 the word kapu means watchman and reddi means king. The Kapus or reddis seem to have been a powerful Dravidian tribe in the early centuries of the Christian era…though their power has been put down from time to time by the Chalukyas, the Pallavas, and the bellalas, several families of Zamindars came into existence after the captivity of pratapa Rudra of warrangle.
• Subsects of Kapu

1. Bandi (cart)
2. Challa (one who eats old or cold food)
3. Chanipoyina (one who is dead)
4. Chilakala (paroquet)
5. Dandu (army)
6. Desur (territory or body of valor)
7. Dhoni (boat)
8. Gandikota (fort)
9. Gazula (bangle makers) Balija
10. Gorrela (sheep)
11. Gudisa (hut)
12. Guntaka (Harrow)
13. Kallamu (threshing floor)
14. Kukru (dog)
15. Kuncheti
16. Maddila (Drum)

Thurston classified the telugu castes based on oral traditions and casual observations. He was an imperialist who’s impressions were based on the Aryan invasion theory that a white race (indo-aryans) came and conquered the dark skinned race (Dravidians) and subjugated them. He worked under the pretense that the Aryans were distant relatives of his race and so they had a right to rule over India because that is what the white race is supposed to do according to their interpretation of the Vedas. So he felt that all south Indians including brahmans, were Dravidians and primarily sudras. This has been proven to be an error. However if you insist on quoting him as a resource his writings basically say that:

1. The lowest castes were from the austro-aboriginal tribes and the higher social strata was Dravidian.
2. Of the Dravidians the Kapus are farmers and agricultural laborers as well and landowners and are the base of society, some times known by their region (Turpu (east)).
3. They divided into traders (Balija), urban traders (Nagaralu), High ranking soldiers (ayyaraku patrudu), specialized soldiers (Telega) (Ontari (strongmen)), (Munuru).
4. The merchant branch of the kapus was the Balijas, and those who followed strict brahminical Hinduism became Komatis. Some Balijas telegas and kapus became Nayaks. The ayyaraka’s separated themselves.
5. Kapu meant watchman and reddi meant king.
6. The reddies and Kammas were the elite ruling- warrior branch of kapus.
   1. The Reddies only had one Kingdom that too during the 1500 A.D. and it was a small one... so what does the term ruling mean
7. He connects the reddies to the Rashtrakutas and the Kammas to the andhra local dynasties using mecknezies manuscripts.
   1. if the reddies are connected to the Rashtrkutas how are they related to the Kapus?? The Kapus claim descent from the Satavanhas only because they are linked to the migrating tribe of Kaampu or Kossars came to the Deccan in the same time as the Satavahana Kings appeared over the Deccan and ruled from the their capital Srikakulam in Krishan Dt which where this tribe was also belived to have settled and which Andhra Dynasity are the Kammas linked please enlighten us Mckenzie Manusript links the Kapu naidus to the Ancient Andhra Dynasities
8. The reddies had stricter social standards and became a separate caste.
9. The Kammas were originally warriors who considered themselves Kshatriyas but lost that status because they insulted a king and became high class farmers and warriors.
   1. Kammas were warriors there is not a single inscrition which predates the Kamma as a caste before 1252 AD and that was of Gangeta Sahini a commander in the Kakateeya Kingdom. Chalukyan Incsritions only mention Kampulu and reddi and use the term interchangeably for them they mention about Gouds and mudiraj and artisans and Bramhins the inscriptions donot menion about any caste called Kamma. They mnetion about kamnpulu being appointed as Governors with the title reddi. Chalukyas ruled from the East and West Godavari Districts. and if you check the surnames of any of the familes that have reddi in their Surname. 90% of them are Telagas here. What does this tell you. reddi and kapu was interchageably used for these communities its did not mean reddi meant the current day Reddy and kapu meant the current day kapu. Even today the number surnames carrying a Reddy is more in the Kapu/Telaga/Balija/Ontari/Munnur Kapu caste than the actual Reddy Caste. The familes carrying the title Reddy were appointed as Governors by the Rashtrkutas and Chalukyas. Just like the familes carrying the title Neni in their surnames were appointed as Commanders in the Kakateeya kingdoms. Neni is primarily found in the Kammas followed by the Kapu's/Tealagas and then the Velama Doras. These are very basics of Andhra History. Without knowing these please do not post.
10. These Kammas debated about the gosha system for women and those who wanted to get rid of it remained Kammas and those who wanted to keep it became Velamas.
11. The rajus are the elite warrior sect of the reddies, and Kammas and Balijas and the Bhatrajus were the court bards.
12. Except for the Nayaks, it was mainly the reddis, kammas, velamas and Balija sections that Thurston feels were linked to rulers.

• In Social Changes among Balijas (By Vijaya Kumari and Sepuri Bhaskar you leave out vital information such as:
• Pg. 87 Though balijas form the single largest community, they have very little political awareness. Their political activities are limited to villages. A few have risen to the level of state and central government. In order to have a systematic approach to this study let us view the political organization of the past, present and future.

The Past:

• This commmunity was almost in darkness in the political field from immemorial past. The population which settled in the town areas, chiefly were business oriented and never thought of any political move. The village population which mainly depended on cultivation, lived almost below the poverty level. Thus they could not imagine the political participation at all in the olden days. But they ere taking active part in the village level political organizations like, village councils, gram panchayats, et.
• There were instances wherein these pople acted as village officers like “Reddy” (tax collector). In Chittoor district we find the names with the reddy “tag”, for the reasons that they have done reddy jobs. In olden days there were instances of active leadership from people belonging to this community in the village councils. Though the village council is constitued with members from all communities in the village, (a considerable percentage) did not enjoy the leadership in the state of AP
• The general population due to its poverty stricken conditions was ignored from political participation. They lcaked political knowledge They have never had an opportunity to think about political positions nor aspire for political upliftment.
• The people were mostly agricultural laborers, who had no financial stability. But a few well to do families did participate.
• Before independence, in tanjore and madurai samsthanams, people from Balija community were merely soldiers and kothwals. They played a leadership role of nayakas which even today can be seen after their names as naidu.
• The nayak kings of tanjore and madhurai were from the dasi sub-sect. Traditionally the Balijas are engaged in agriculture and business. The caste people are mostly agriculturists and agricultural laborers in rural areas.

So if you are going to use Thurston or any of the others as a resource at least have the courage to quote all of what he says. You use a past wiki edit of rajus to prove that kapus were Satavahanas, come on people. Kapus have achieved a lot but making it sound like we were the dominant caste and simply forgot is not historically accurate. You could make this a very informative article, at least name the present descendents of these dynasties so we can have something to grasp onto but it is turning into a fluff piece with vague inferences. If that’s what you want to make yourself feel better about the past go right ahead, but don’t expect the rest of us to take you seriously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kapunadu (talk • contribs) 17:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

1. The Book In Social Changes among Balijas (By Vijaya Kumari and Sepuri Bhaskar mentioned Ediga Balijas(Goud),Perika Balijas(Perikis),Surya Balijas(Kalavantula),Vada balijas(Fishermen),Setti Balijas Andhra(Goud) as belonging to Balija or Balija Naidu caste, which they are not and they constitue a huge chunk of the population in Rayalaseema and are not politically aware and backward in terms of Social Customs. If the balijas were so backward why the Govt callsify them as an Forward Caste. Do you want us to write this in our articles knowing its junk. So this section is ignore for obvious reasons and it does not appear in our article. Thurston was right only in a few observations so whateverver was genuiene was taken over into this article. Thurston Most of the time he mentioned about Reddis and Kammas being related to Kapu. Have you ever seen the Gothrams of any of these Castes If you see Kamma Gothrams and Kapu/Tealaga/Balija/Ontari/Munnuru Kapu/Turpu Kapu gothrams dont match even one bit. Hindu History is derived from Gothrams and the lineages are established based on these not on Surnames which are mere village names and Social Strata which is what Thurston went by when he went about composing this book Moreover Thurston did most of his work from Tamil Nadu and during the end of the Vijayanagar rule so you would obviously see him mentioning a lot more about Kapu being Reddy and Balijas and Kammas but not Telagas,Kapu,Ontari's who are much more medieval in their origins The article refers to Colin Mckenzie's inscritional Evidence and you of the Kapu communities relations to Ancient Andhra Dynasities. Anyway anything thats written in the article has good links being pointed. I dont understand what is the frustration thats drivinvg you so much and in saying the article is a fluff peice of article. Only because its brings out the Glory and the Golden Pages of the communities history. And your signature says it all you you have convinietly taken up a username to claim a pro community stand while writing out this junk here and wasting the bandwidth. --- Panel1
   1. Panel1, non of these statements come from me. They come from the very sources that some have used as gospel truth to make some of the statments without other varifyable sources. I don't need to explain thurstons observations. I merely listed all the things that he said. The same with the Balija article. I don't need to explain any of these. I notice that when i point them out you change the proclamations of Krishna Deva raya being definitely balija to it is just a theory. You also go from saying all the kingdoms were led by Kapus to that they were just generals and soldiers in them. So you basically agree that thurston got a lot of things wrong, if he was wrong about many of the basics of the caste than how can we believe about the dynasty connection. It is simply not possible for one man to know the history and origin of all the castes of India within a five year period of research. He is going to have a lot of errors so he cannot be used as a irrefutable source. Even Indian authors don't seem to know all the subcastes as seen in the social changes of bailijas. I know you are on a mission to only put good things in this project from the past postings and requests that you made, which is fine for a blog site but this is supposed to be a type of encyclopedia, which means a neutral unbiased accuount should be promoted. I just think if you look at the facts in a impartial way you can have a better understanding of Telugu History. I would say the same for the reddys, kammas, rajus, brahmans and vaishaya ect.. by the way non of your referrence links go anywhere!! I you don't get some valid refferences and have valid links to them, you are going to look foolish, Try and put more english links because this is an english website, if you only want to post telugu referrences it might be better to put this on telugupedia. articles.--Kapunadu (talk) 11:58, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Krishna Deva Raya

My Dear friends why do you make so much of hue and cry upon this issue. Please read the following link about the Sangama and Tulu dynasty people written by none other than the collector of Kadapa dt in 1850s :CP Brown (Also known as the writor of Telugu-English dictionary). Know that Sangama, Saluva and Tuluvas are Yadavas....... Krishna devaraya himself had stressed this out.[2]

Would someone please clarify how he is related to Kapus? He keeps being included under Kapus. While admitting that the araveetu clan was a Kapu clan, Krishna deva came from the Tuluva dynasty which was not from the kapu caste. So other than maybe a possible marriage alliance with a kapu individual how can he be a Kapu. I mean he did also marry a Gajapathi princes but that doesn't make him an Oriya? Pleas help me understand.--Telugubidda (talk) 14:11, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

@@@ We are not saying KrishnaDevaaya is a Kapu we only his surname is Sammeta which is found among Gollas/Yadavas as well... Its only a claim... the claim again is based on the fact that the Matti Rajulu of Cuddapah district Balijas are related to Krishnadeva Raya and his son in law Araveeti Rama Raya was also a Kapu..

Actually i dont think even the Araveetu clan is kapu. This family still exists and is honored by the Karantaka government. in fact if you o this bio site they clear say that they are a Kshatriya clan. (www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/ips/a/anegundi.html). Now i am totally confused, who should i believe the living members of a dynasty or some author researching ancient inscriptions?--Telugubidda (talk) 23:54, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

@@@ Please refer to the press releasses of the visit of the the current zamindar of anegondi Araveedu dynasity and he was felicitated in Krishna District in Srikakulam where Krishnadeva Raya wrote his Amuktamalyada... He calls himself a Balija...

Vijayanagara Empire

Sangama Dynasty Harihara Raya I 1336-1356 Bukka Raya I 1356-1377 Harihara Raya II 1377-1404 Virupaksha Raya 1404-1405 Bukka Raya II 1405-1406 Deva Raya I 1406-1422 Ramachandra Raya 1422 Vira Vijaya Bukka Raya 1422-1424 Deva Raya II 1424-1446 Mallikarjuna Raya 1446-1465 Virupaksha Raya II 1465-1485 Praudha Raya 1485 Saluva Dynasty Saluva Narasimha Deva Raya 1485-1491 Thimma Bhupala 1491 Narasimha Raya II 1491-1505 Tuluva Dynasty Tuluva Narasa Nayaka 1491-1503 Viranarasimha Raya 1503-1509 Krishna Deva Raya 1509-1529 Achyuta Deva Raya 1529-1542 Sadashiva Raya 1542-1570 Aravidu Dynasty Aliya Rama Raya 1542-1565 Tirumala Deva Raya 1565-1572 Sriranga I 1572-1586 Venkata II 1586-1614 Sriranga II 1614-1614 Ramadeva 1617-1632 Venkata III 1632-1642 Sriranga III 1642-1646

Reply The Sangamas were Kanada Kurubas or Kurumas. People of the Kuruba community have long essayed a variety of professions, and have not been confined to their traditional sheparding. Kurubas are known by different names in different regions of the country:

1. Ahir
2. Dhangar
3. Gowda
4. Gounder
5. Kurumba
6. Yadavalu.

They do not consider themselves as Kapu. So obviously no connection with the Sangama Dynasty

The Saluva’s were founded by Saluva Narashimha Deva Raya. Saluva was not the family name. It was a title meaning “Hawk”. He declared that he belonged to the Kshatriya Varna of the Atreya gotra. The Royal family of Karvetinagram are the recognised descendents of this line. They state that they belong to the Kshatriya Varna, not Kapu, not Balija.

The Tuluva dynasty was founded by Narasa Nayaka. Tuluva comes from Tuluv or Tulu. They were Tulus. The same community as Sunil Shetty and Ashwaria Rai. Tulus don’t consider themselves in any way connected to Kapus or Balijas. Krishna Deva Raya was not part of the Aravidu clan, his half brother Achyuta Deva Raya’s wife was married to a Balija princes. The Tuluva dynasty died with Krishna Deva Rayas son Sadashiva Raya. So no direct connection with Krishna Deva to Kapus or Balijas.

Achyuta Deva Raya's wife’s family belonged to Balija royals and the families of Madura, travancore, Kandy and Gingee all married amongst themselves and were all Balijas but this was the only incidence of a marraige occuring with the Vijayanagar royal family. If you read carefully the geneolgy that was put together in this article and map out the relationships you will undoubtedly see how ridculously far they are from the ruling Vijaynagar clans. Has anyone even tried, I have. So no direct link this way either.

Krishna Deva’s brother in law Aliya Rama Raya usurped the crown from Sadashiva and founded the Aravidu Dynasty. The legally recognised direct descendent of the Aravidu (Narapathi) clan is Raja Achutya Deva Raya, Zamindar of Anegundi, who is still alive and is honored each year by the Karnataka government and on his personal biography states that he is of the Kshatriya Varna [3]. So no connection through this branch either.

So of the 4 Vijayanagar dynasties, one family came from the Kuruba caste, one came rom the Tulu/Bunt community, and two came from Kshatriya caste who’s descendents are still alive and fully aware of their history. So other than a single incidence of a marriage occurring with a brother of the ruler, at no time did Kapus directly hold the position of emperor of Vijayanagar. So it is complete bunk that Kapus ruled Vijayanagaram and comlete bunk that they are part of the Aravidu clan.

@@@@ You keep mentioning Khatriya caste can you mention which caste is this ??? They are definitely not Rajus of Andhra??? Are you saying they are Kannada ???

There however is irrefutable evidence of Balija Kapus working as governors for the empire in Kandy, Gingee, Travancore, Chandragiri, Penugonda and Madura, and as independent rulers after the empire fell, at least until the 17th and 18th century when the Moghuls and Marathas took over. This is something to be proud of but it is crazy to go the extra step and say that they ruled the entire empire. It has been a few hundred years since they held power so better to move on.--

[edit] Reply

Mr Andhra your are not consistent in your analysis...once u said that the Tualvas belongs to Yadavs or Kuruba community and next you are saying that they descendents now are claiming they are he is of the Kshatriya Varna ....One thing you must be aware is that communtites intermarried all across the ages and intermigled...For your information Krishna Deva Raya's mother is of Balija/Kapu origin...so claims that he has Kapu/Balija blood are not wrong....The article is written by refering other historical texts written by various authors like Social Chnages among Balijas - Sepuri Bhaskar ,Castes and Tribes by Edgar Thurston etc...John Rambo 01:48, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

• I don't remember that far back about what i said but think i am consistent with the Sangamas being Kurubas if said that Tulus were also then I admit to being wrong. I researched it further and that is how i came to this realization that The Tuluvas were not Yadavas, they are Bunts. But that still doesn't change the fact that tuluvas and yadavas are not kapus and krishna deva raya was not a telugu and he was not from the kapu community. I also happened to map out the geneology that was talked about from edgar thurston, which is what is post on the article and found no relationship with Balijas. His half brothers wife was a balija not krishna deva rayas. Please try this out, it may help. If you have proof that KDR's mother was a balija would you please post that information on the discussion page or direct me to where i can read about it. If its true then that would just make the discussion more enlightened and i will except the facts.

• Also I don't believe KDR was a Kshatriya, the facts don't show that. He was a tulu and part of the Tuluva dynasty not aravidu. this is also a fact. so he cannot be connected to kapus, unless of course you can provide some proof. I am quite interested in history and don't particularly care about caste affiliation. It is just frustrating when there is weak information. As far as the Saluva clan is concerned how do you ignore the fact that they proclaimed themselves Kshatriyas and the karvetinagram rulers continue to claim descent from them. Are the current members kapus or balijas who claim they are kshatriyas? what is their family name? do they marry kapus or balijas I don't know much about this family if you do please let me know. And the Arvidu family of Aenugondi claim to be kshatriyas, did you happen to go to his bio link, how do you explain this?. Their family name is pampapathi. do they marry kapus or balijas? If you have access to this info please share this with me because so far i'm lost about these issues. Thanks--Andhra (talk) 03:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Mr Andhra

• I have made changes to Kakatiyaa rulers in the article accordingly
• KDR is known a "Dasi Putra" he is born to a Balija women. Please refer the following text where the author refered him to have Balija Naidu descent.

Reflections on State-Making and History-Making in South India, 1500-1800 Sanjay Subrahmanyam

• KDR maintain close relations with Balija/Kapu Naidu Nayaks and married many of them in their families to them and he also assigned them governorships to far flung areas of Tamil nadu and Andhra pradesh.So Kapu(Balija Naidu/Telagas) having royal association with the Vijayanagram Kingdome and being the primary ruling clan of the Kingdom along with other clans like Kammas,Velamas is irrefutable that is what the article is trying to convey.The Tamil Balija Nayak dynasties are the remnants of the Vijayanagar Kingdom after the defeat at Talikota.No where in the article there is a mention that Vijayanagar Kingdom belongs only to Kapus(Balijas/Telagas etc)

John Rambo 04:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Regarding the Chalukya

It is a known fact that the Chalukyas were native to the Karnataka region. Chalukya inscriptions address themselves as Harithiputras of Manavyasagotra, which incidentally is the same as their early overlords, the Kadambas of Banavasi. This makes them descendants of the Kadambas. Regarding the caste to which the early Chalukyas belonged sources claim they were of Kshatriya caste.

Eastern Chalukyas

Pulakesi II (608 – 644) conquered the eastern Deccan, corresponding to the coastal districts of Andhra Pradesh in 616, defeating the remnants of the Vishnukundina kingdom. He appointed his brother Kubja Vishnuvardhana as Viceroy. On the death of Pulakesi II, the Vengi Viceroyalty developed into an independent kingdom. They were Kshatriyas. Their dynasty lasted for around 500 years from the 7th century until c. 1130 C.E. when the Vengi kingdom merged with the Chola empire. Eastern Chalukyas were closely related to the Chalukyas of Vatapi (Badami).

As far as administration, the territory was parcelled out into many small principalities (estates) held by the nobility consisting of collateral branches of the ruling house such as those of Elamanchili, Pithapuram and Mudigonda, and a few Kshatriya families closely connected by marriage ties with the Eastern Chalukyas and other Kshatriya and non-Kshatriya families who were raised to high position for their loyal services.

As for as the society, Yuan Chwang, who travelled in the Andhra country after the establishment of the Eastern Chalukya kingdom, noted that the society was based on hereditary caste system. Besides the four traditional castes, minor communities like Boyas and Savaras (Tribal groups) also existed.

The Brahmins were held in high esteem in the society. The Kshatriyas were the ruling class. The Komatis (Vaisyas) was flourishing trading community. The Sudras constituted the bulk of the population and there were several sub-castes among them. The army furnished a career for most of them and some of them acquired the status of Samanta Raju and Mandalika. Hinduism was the official religion throughout the Chalukya period.

So clearly the Chalukyas were not initially native to Andhra, they did not belong to the Kapu caste and they declared themselves of the Kshatriya Varna long before Raja Rajendra was born. They also seemed to enforce the caste system. Kapus freely admite that they are sath-sudras (upperclass sudras), so if the King was a Kapu why would he suppress them? And if they had declared themselves at the very begining to be Kshatriyas, why would Raja Rajendra have to justify his rule by stating he was a Kshatriya. They seemed to be doing just fine for a few hundred years. This is total nonsense, simply an overzealous group of people desperatly trying find a way to link this proud community to this clan with no shred of tangible evidence and simple loose associations with names etc.

Cholas:

The Chola Dynasty was a Tamil dynasty, which comes from Tamil Chola in Sanskrit and Chola or Choda in Telugu. Chalukya Cholas came about after Rajaraja Chola's daughter married prince Vimaladitya. Rajendra Chola's daughter was also married to an Eastern Chalukya prince Rajaraja Narendra.

Telugu Chodas:

The Telugu Chodas adopted the title Chola as a Honorary title and also to show the Fuedatory Status they had under the Chola-Chalukya and western Chalukya rulers. They were their trusted lieutenants and generals. The Choda Kings themselves were Sudras. They belonged to the Durjaya family. Five chieftains of Velanadu ruled over the country after which it was over-run by the Kakatiyas and became a part of their kingdom.

1. Velanati Choda claimed their descent from the illustrious Cholas of South India.
2. Renadu Chodas recognised the suzerainty of the Chalukyas of Badami.
3. Konidena Cholas were also a branch of the Telugu Chodas of Renadu
4. Nannuru Cholas were another branch of Telugu Cholas.
5. Nellore Chodas also claimed descent from the famous Karikala Chola.

Many warriors are slain in the battle of Palanadu between the families of Haihayas, and relatives and vassals of Velanati Chodas.

Its obvious that the Cholas were a tamil dynasty. Kapus are telugu not tamil. So no connection to Cholas. And since they have no connection to the Chalukyas they cannot be Chola-Chalukyas. As far as the Telugu Chodas, it sounds like they were either tamil chieftans settled in Andhra who claimed descent from the Cholas or they were local telugu chieftians who worked for the cholas then the Chola-Chalukyas and eastern Chalukya rulers. If they were Andhras it would be hard to understand why they would claim descent from a tamil dynasty. If they were Telugus who worked for the Cholas then they might be from the Kapu caste since they did claim to be of the Sudra Varna. I don't know if any Kapus have the family name of Durjaya though. The Haihayas were mentioned in the Palnadu charitra as being Kshatriyas and this reference shows they were not related to the Chodas so no connection with them. Also if the Kaktiyas were from the same family why would they fight with them all the time and why did'nt they reinstate them after they took over. The Kakatiyas seemed to favor the Velamas. As far as royal ranking is concerned it was the Chalukyas and subsequent Chola-Chalukyas that held supreme power, the Chodas were their vassals.

@@@@@ The Telugu Chodas were the first to adopt telugu and use Telugu Inscirptions they were powerful indegenous Agragarian communities and their Gothram was Kasyapa... and they were Shudra... which tmail Shudra community has Kasya as gothram and which telugu shudra community has kasyapa as gothram...Please stop stealing the very foudation of telugu history the telugu Chodas are pillars for telugu language...

Kakatiyas:

Who knows which caste they belonged too. Which ever one it was clearly a Sudra caste as they left inscriptions claiming this. But if they were Kapus why would the King entrust 25% of his land and 77 battalions to 77 Velamas as stated in the History of the Andhras, if he were of Kapu origin. wouldn't you think he would find suitable Kapus or Balijas to do this. Especially if according to this article they had been experienced in war and rulership since the time of the Satavahans? These are questions that need to be answered before you can go around spreading false information to a gullable audience. I know these are false truths becouse i actually took the time to link on to the supposed evidence that was listed under referrences. Half the links don't exist and half are links to past wiki postings and community based website info which cannot be taken seriously. So no connection other than as soldiers with the Chalukyas and as stated before no direct connection with the Vijaynagar kings and unanswered questions regarding the Kakatiyas, no link to the Cholas, possible link to the Telugu Chodas. So far the evidence points to being predominantly farmers and soldiers with occasional governs post, not supreme rulers.

Andhra (talk) 19:14, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Mr Andhra

1)If think if you agree that most of the present prominent agricultural communities in Andhra like Reddies, Kammas and Velamas are of Kapu descent..then you should be agreeing that claiming that most of the ancient kingdoms of andhra and deccan should have belonged to Kapus should be right...(Noted historians too have agreed on this)...I agree to the fact that Kapu is the mother of the all the agrarian castes..but due to religious and political differences they have separated out...Reddy till 20th century was NOT even considered a caste...it was a title only used by almost all major Kapu subcastes and other agrarian castes...just like the title Naidu...After independence just for political purposes Reddies of about 60-70 sub-castes !!! together about 7-8% AP population !!!(ridiculous really) have started making it look like a caste by intermarring,religious conversion,poltical affiliations and false propoganda.....So if there is a Reddy Dynasty that ruled parts of Andhra after the fall of the Kakateeyas then it should be a Kapu Dynasty !!!Prolaya Vema Reddy himself suggested that he is Pranta Kapu !!!....

• this is a silly argument i personally also agree that all the agrarian caste came from a common stock. But they did call themselves the reddy dynasty so if certain reddies want to claim it just let them have this one.--Andhra (talk) 03:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

2)Telagas should be the most ancient warrior clans in deccan and south india as the word telaga itself is derived from the root words Telingana and Telugu...So it should be easy to see that the Telugu warriors are called Telagas par excellance(Social Changes among balijas Sepuri Bhaskar) In Rajamundary there are Telagas who still have their ancient swords,armour in their houses(they are known as Merakaveedi Telagalu)...Telagas being the most ancient warrior clan is irrefuatble...

• I agree telagas were greater soldiers as were velamas.--Andhra (talk) 03:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

3)The article refers only to Telugu cholas and areas ruled by them NOT to the whole Chola dynasty...No where in the article is there is mentioning of some Tamil land being ruled by Telugu cholas..and also the surnames and gotras of some of the Kapu/telaga families in those areas clearly match with those of the Telugu chola kings..e. Konidena,Choda etc

• I agree they may have been Kapus--Andhra (talk) 03:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

4)The Kakatiyas are shudras and are from various agraian communtiites who fought together against muslim invaders...those who fought are from all communties like Telagas, balijas, Velamas, Reddies(i personally don't consider reddy as a caste.....rather its a title given primarily to Kapus who took up roles as village heads) Many of the chiefs are of Telaga/Kapu origin...You might be refering to one book History of andhras by Durga Prasad where he mentions names of clans who fought the wars and believe me many of the surnames mentioned like konda, dasari, adapa, adabala are in Telaga caste too...So this article does n't claim that all Kakatiyas are of Kapu origin BUT it only mentions some of the principle clans who fought the wars and were instrumental in uniting the telugus are of Kapu/telaga/balija descent...The evidence against this is Balija Kula Charitra(Kante Narayana Desai)...Kamma vari charitra etc John Rambo 02:30, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

• Well acutally if you look at the article again it lists kakatiyas under great social contributors of kapu ancestors so you are not being completely forthright about this. If you were it would not be listed as such.--Andhra (talk) 03:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kapu history

The basic unite of Telugu society was and still is the village. Which ever caste comprised the largest landowning class dominated the village society. In villages that had majority of Kapus they dominated the social structure. Small and medium scale famers were the majority and referred to themselves as Kapu (Farmer). Amongst the larger landowners a leader was picked and was given the title of Pedda Kapu or Reddy. Amongst the rest, trusted individuals were picked by these Pedda Kapus to protect the village and called Vurru/Prantha Kapus. Others were picked to protect the livestock and called Panta Kapus. Those who also engaged in trade were referred to as Balija. The balijjas that engaged solely on trade were reffered to by the title of Setty. The Balijas classified themselves into trading guilts. These trading guilds referred to themselves by whatever product they specialized in; example those who traded in bangles were referred to as Gajula Balijas. Some of these traders were settled in large towns and cities and were called Nagaralu (City). Because of the wealth and influence enjoyed by the large landlords and merchants some were assigned territories to act as tax collectors and administrators by the ruling clans and given the title of Nayak which became Naidu. These Nayak positions were originally supposed to not be hereditary. Their primary role was to collect taxes and maintain an army that would be called upon during times of war by the ruling clans. However whenever the central government became weak the larger Nayaks declared independence and became hereditary rulers. This is how things functioned during times of peace.

During times of war the rulers would call upon the local farmers to join the ranks of the army. In the army amongst the Kapu community some members became specialist in certain types of combat and began to be referred to as Munnuru, Telaga and Ontari Kapus. A certain group of Kapus distinguished themselves during Vijayanagar times and were referred to as Ayyaraku Patrudus. Although they began to regard themselves as a separate caste. Some of the highly distinguished soldiers were recognized by the rulers and given posts as commanders and given the title of Nayak/Naidu also. After the battles were settled some were rewarded by being put in charge of territories and responsible for tax collection, administration and security. These Naidus were also initially supposed to serve for as long as the rulers felt they were effective. However they also declared independence whenever the central government became weak. They had their greatest influence in telugu society during the later chalukya, Kakatiya, Nayaka, Vijayanagar periods and had the greatest independent power following the fall of Vijayanagar and Tanjovur, Madurai, Chenchi, Kandy at least until the Moghuls, Marathas and British took over. Once the British came in the Reddys and Kammas began to gain greater influence due to the fact that they took to education and modern agricultural techniques earlier than the Kapu community. Once india became independent they further consolidated their influence by being more active in politics. This is how the Kapu community evolved and devolved.

Living in the past and arguing over which rulers belonged to which caste and putting blame on other communities is not going to improve the current situation. India is now a free market economy, we live in a competitive free market world that requires professionalism and competency. By getting rid of the licensing raj enterprising individuals have the opportunity to start businesses and improve their financial situation without having to deal with corrupt beurocrates. In this environment education is the key. No matter how many quotas are assigned if an individual does not dedicate himself to meet the standards required then the individual will eventually fail due to their inability to compete with the more competent. Once the individual has succeded he can bring up his family and then the group of successful families can help bring up the community. Once the community becomes successful then it will automatically enjoy the respect it is due, not by obsessing about what glorious past that may have occurred and certainly not by obsessing over what your neighbor is doing. Essentially you have to look to yourself to make things better.--Telugubidda (talk) 17:26, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kapu article Standards

Pleae do not add surnames and copy paste eminent Kapus lists in this Page. It makes it ugly.Please contribute and stop delting the links in the article.I have carefully put the links here only to see that they are being overwritten by people who post... Please refrain from removing links...Also please contribute in History,Traditions and Customs rather than adding Surnames... and making it an indiscriminte list...---Panel1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Panel1 (talk • contribs) 08:10, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

Please refrain from adding surnames and gothras. There will be no end to it. Tejam 12:36, 8 August 2007 (UTC) The article is back to its original chaotic state. The material which was repasted is full of inaccuracies, contradictions, lack of citations, hype and illogical statements. The users who have carried out this reversion should see the other articles (Telugu people) to learn a thing or two.Tejam 10:50, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I will be working on the presentation of this article in order to make it more appealing its not in proper state. This article is being refered by many now so has be more orderly Thanks, John Rambo 23:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I have formatted the article and made it look clean.I have removed the bolded parts as its making the article chaotic.I have also removed the surnames of telaga as all surnames are present in the separate telaga article.Users can refer that article for more info reg surnames. I may further format the article in order to make the article more appealing and accurate. John Rambo 17:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Pls dont' add personal emails in the article ..Pagdala pls login into wikipedia for edits or discussions..

[edit] Surname of Madhura kings

It was noted that the surnames of Madhura nayaks were Alluri and Garikepati. These surnames are prevalent in Kamma and Velama communities too.

So ??? whats your point do you wannna claim that Madurai and Tanjavore Nayaks are Kamma...check some basic reference materials before you even start claiming...Are there any sources like these for your arguments... check below

Its clearly mentioned in Penukonda Charitra that Viswantha Nayakas Surname was Garikepati...and was a Balija ---Eddula Nandi Reddy...As did Edgar Thirston... And please search the Net on JSTOR etc Articles from Cambridge etc which are very clear about who were the rulers of Madurai,Tanjavore and Viajayanagar(Araveeti) [4],,,, [5] And if you want more please take a look at the inscriptions of Tirumla Nayaka in the Madurai Temple...

And recently the Madurai Balija Association celebrated the Birthday of Tirumala Naicker what happened to this so called Descendants Pemmasani Clan??? they did not seem to feature anywhere...

DID YOU GET ANY SINGLE INSCRIPTIONAL EVIDENCE TO WRITE THAT TELUGU CHODAS, RENATI CHODAS,POTHAPI CHODAS,KONIDENA CHODAS,VELANATI CHODAS, ARAVEETI DYNASTY, UDAYAGIRI DYNASTY, PENUKONDA DYNASTY, KORUKONDA DYNASTY AS KAPUS? KAPUS DON'T HAVE ANY DYNASTIES. DO YOU HAVE ANY INSCRIPTIONS SUPPORTING YOUR CLAIM ? WHAT EVER YOU WROTE IS FALSE STORY WHICH DO NOT HAVE EVIDENCE. ACCORDING TO INDIA TODAY KAPU POPULATION IS ONLY 15%. VIJAYA NAGAR KINGS WERE ALSO NOT KAPUS. EVEN ONE INSCRIPTION IS NOT TELLING THAT KAPUS ARE CHODAS OR VIJAYANAGAR KINGS. YOU ARE ASKING FOR INSCRIPTIONAL EVIDENCE FOR OTHER CASTES WHY DON'T YOU ASK FOR INSCRIPTIONAL EVIDENCE FOR KAPU CASTE ALSO?. MUNNURU KAPU AND TURUPU KAPU CASTES MAY NOT HAVE KAPU LINK. TIRUMALA NAYAKA VARDHANTI WAS DONE BY TAMIL KAMMA NAIDUS MANY DECADES BACK. 59.162.208.77 07:11, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello, I do not have to go over this again and again and mention who were what... You can rfer books like Andhrula Sankhspta Charitra for Telugu Chodas, PenuKonda Dynasity,Undayagiri Dynasity --- in penukonda chaaritra(Edula Nandi Reddy), Castes and Tribes of South India(Edgar Thurston), Madurai Nayaks(There are online links as well pasted in the article apart from that The Madurai Meemnakshi Temple has an Inscription which quotes Tirumala Nayaka writing down his caste name as Balija) If you want to go by vardhati's then his Birthday was done by Balija Naidus of madurai... Please dont try to bring this as Evidence... If Gandhi Jaynati is being celebrtaed in America would Gandhi become an American ???? Cut out this nonsense i can clearly understand your Knowledge levels about Kapu community when you say Munnuru kapu and Turpu kapu are not part of the kapu caste... Please go and do more Reasearch before you start posting you would be making a fool of yourself... I can understand there is a big difference when you are trying to learn and doing posts which dont make any sense...If some community does not belong to us we would know that... And we made a list of all Non kapu and Non Balija communites in our pages inorder not to confuse people..If Kapu's dint have any Dysnasities then there are no Andhra Kingdoms or Dynasities please be sure of that buddy... If you refer to Colin Mckenzie Inscritiosn Evidence he mentions all of Ancient Andhra Kingdoms are Kapu Kingdoms..... Satavahana,Vishnukundis,Ikshvaku,Chalukya...

I think he was more biased than the people who have written this Article We did not mention kapu community links to Other Dynassities because of lack of proper evidence... Thats why his articles are preserved in Chennai and British Libararies... Not like Articles on wikipedia from a Couple of Social Groupings who claim links to every other Dynasity...

BOOKS ARE NOT EVIDENCE FOR HISTORY DUDE KNOW THIS.... YOU CAN PRESENT SINGLE ( ONLY ONE INSCRIPTION ) IN SUPPORT OF KAPUS AS KINGS IN ANDHRA OR TAMIL NADU. THERE WERE MANY BOOKS WRITTEN BY MANY AUTHORS TELLING THAT SOMANY CASTES ARE BELONG TO VIJAYANAGAR EMPIRE, NAYAKARAJAS, CHOLAS. EVERY BODY KNOW THAT CHOLAS ARE TAMILIANS NOT TELUGU PEOPLE OR ARYANS. MADURAI TEMPLE INSCRIPTIONS ARE NOT TELLING THE CASTE OF NAYAKA RAJAS GO AND STUDY. 59.162.208.77 11:21, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Balija origin

Nagama Nayak and his son Viswanatha Nayak were Balija merchants. The father was the royal mace-bearer and the son was betel-bearer in Vijayanagar court. Both impressed the king with their loyalty and obedience. This information is available in two well-known historical books on Vijayanagar. Every Telugu should be proud of these Nayaks. The contributions of Tirumala Nayak, descendent of Viswanatha, are simply magnificent.

1. (http://www.archive.org/details/FurtherSourcesOfVijayanagaraHistory)

2.(http://historion.net/r.sewell-vijayanagar-history-india/). Nuniz says that Viswanatha Nayak was well-known as Betel Nayak during Vijayanagar times.Kumarrao 13:48, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kapus -Present backwardness and political awakening among them

I have added a section to describe the present suitation of Kapus in India and the recent political awakening and changes that have taken place among them. The right to have proper representation in political and economical spheres are now being seriously considered by all. John Rambo 22:56, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Added the present social chnages and political awakeing among Kapus

I have added section to highlight some of the important contributions of Kapus in the South Indian society and also the recent backwardness and political isolation the community has faced after independnce.The recent awakening among the members to assert themsleves and truely get its due on the economic and political front are also mentioned in the article.The emergence of an alternative poltical force in Andhra is strong among the Kapus than ever.John Rambo 16:58, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

John Rambo 03:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC) I have modified the part to exclude reference to other castes. Its not wrong to show case the decline of the kapus in the 20th century.Its a fact I have included this in order to show the readers the present suitation of Kapus in AP their lost glory and their recent political awareness among them.So PANEL1 request you to not delete this section wiki pedia article are for representing the facts as per the present political and economic senarios.It also mentions some of the political awerse ness,lack of leadership mong kapus as one of the possible reasons for not getting political power all these years.So this NOT biased and shows a clear picture of the political and economical suitation of kapus John Rambo 03:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Appreciation

I appreciate the efforts of Panel 1 and Rambo to refine the article. The article needs further changes. There is still lot of hype, needless info, erroneous inputs which lack historical evidences, improper use of English etc. In addition, Wiki is not a forum to discuss social and economic issues. One can only give the current picture. Rambo must sign his Username by using four tildes. You can notice it at the bottom of the page while editing a Wiki page.Kumarrao (talk) 07:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Social and economical issues

The section only shows the contribtuions of the community to the society which is very much required to showcase in these community articles. Present suituation of Kapus is also highlightened without showing any bias as the article agrees on the backwardness of some sections of kapus in the 20th century.This section only highlights and compares some of the social changes that have taken place in the community.I feel this is required for any community article.Recently there is a marked unity among all kapus and this article just highlights the same.John Rambo 18:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)