Talk:Kansas City-style barbecue

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Contents

[edit] Deletion

Digitalme [1] called for an early deletion of this article. I took it off because there was no justification for this. I put it back since deleting the template is not wiki. As of this writing every single person is opposed to the deletion. If digitalme had bothered to read the article or look at the sources, he would understand the importance and legitimatcy of this article. Americasroof 01:25, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

The poll section on deletion is at [2] -- Americasroof 01:46, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
See my comments at the debate.--digital_me(TalkˑContribs) 02:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This Article vs Regional Variations Article

I like the idea of an article about KC Barbecue, but for it to work, it needs a lot more. Right now, it doesn't have anything more really than the section KC section of the Regional barbecue Variations article [3]. To validate this article, it needs to be more indepth than that. The two should also be reconciled... that section should provide a link to this main article, once this main article is brought up to speed. --Reverend Loki 22:24, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other Noteworthy Restaurants

I think we need to include details and history for some of the other more noteworthy BBQ joints around the metro. For example, there's the Martin City Smokestack/Fiorella's Jack Stack.

Just what sort of standards should we set for inclusion into this article, anyways? Does Zarda get a mention? Summit Hickory Pit? BB's Lawnside? LC's? Winslow's City Market? Bates City? --Reverend Loki 15:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Loki, Some other bbq joints should also be mentioned but there should be some justification on why they are significant (e.g., Boyd's, Rosedale, Heywood). It's a slippery slope into commercialism though once we veer away from the basics. The experience KC article [4] is pretty good at selective listing and importance. The KC Public Library is pretty good with the city's history and they don't venture much further than what's been mentioned. Americasroof 15:28, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
That's why I'm wondering - what is enough to warrant inclusion? Possible indicators: awards, sales numbers, famous and/or expert patronage/endorsement. To further explain this last one - if it wasn't already included in the article, it may be that having both Truman and Carter as patrons warrants a mention, for example. Or if, say, The Food Network features a restaurant, might that get a mention? I agree, it is a slippery slope... that's why I wanted to open this up for discussion before I or anyone else delved into this. Also, on the issue of awards - and I'm using this one, simply cause I live near it, and it is damn good - I know Jackstack has earned several "best of class" type awards from the Zagat Survey - would a semi-exclusive guide like that warrant anything? I'm really not sure where to draw the line on this. --Reverend Loki 16:35, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Race and BBQ

I'm o.k. with the recent edit regarding the race issue and BBQ. The subtext for the article has already been established with the inner city eurphemisms. It doesn't need to be hit over the head. The irony comes into play with KC Masterpiece created by a white doctor and originally entitled "K.C. Soul Style Barbecue Sauce." With it getting bought by Clorox, you can't make that stuff up!!! The edits though take away the potential flame bait and are good. Americasroof 18:29, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please include notability in other restaurants (Note about Jack Stack abuse)

Please include citations and references if you intend to add other restaurants to the article. Gates and Bryants are widely documented. There is currently an effort to raise Jack Stack to the same stature. If you're going to try to do that you better cite sources. It now reads as an unsourced ad. The author has written nothing but material about Jack Stack so it smacks of being a Wikipedia:Sock puppetry Americasroof 21:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I am one who feels that the Jack Stack mini-chain does deserve a good section here - beside being good food (arguably amongst the best in KC and the world), it's an example of the ongoing "scene" so to speak. Now, both Gates and Bryants are a big part of the history and development of KC style BBQ, and have definitely earned and continue to earn their dues, but that doesn't mean there's not room for more. However, you are right - right now, it reads like an ad. In fact, it may be straight out of their corporate literature - which, unless Johnson209 is authorized to publish under Wiki's license, is a copyright violation to boot.
In fact, now that I've taken a moment to look at Johnson's talk page, it looks like a Jack Stack article just got speedy deleted for copyright violation, citing the page: [5], which mirrors the text in this article. Although I'd like to see a Jack Stack section in this article, I'm removing this section as it currently stands. Feel free to write a new, original section, but don't steal other's property to do so. --Reverend Loki 21:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Missing basic information

I was reading Regional variations of barbecue, and found the section there on Kansas City somewhat lacking; I couldn't tell from it what separated the Kansas City variation from any of the others, other than the fact that apparently Kansas City uses sauce, so I came to this article. This article also gives a lot of information on different restaurants and their different sauces, but I'm still missing the basic information: what characterizes Kansas City-style? Is it just the sauce? Beef or pork? Does the cut matter? As someone who knows little about barbecue, I don't even know all the questions I should be asking, but basically, this article and the corresponding section in Regional variations of barbecue seem to focus on the background of Kansas City-style without actually saying what Kansas City-style actually is. I want to learn, tell me! Bgruber 10:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Good point... it does tend to focus on the history of the style, and not on what the style is. Well, informally put, it relies heavily on beef like Texan styles, but does include other meats especially pork. This is primarily a result of KC's history as a major spot in the old cattle drives - KC had the biggest stockyards outside of Chicago, I believe. As a result, there was a lot of it around to use (remember, BBQ started as a way for usually poor people to take cheap and less appetizing meat and make it good!). Sauce is indeed very important - usually a thick, mildly spicy dark sauce, though there is enough variation to cover some lighter and thinner varieties. Gates is thick, spicy and dark, while Jack Stack is milder, with a bit more smoky taste. Arthur Bryant (I somehow have managed to not have eaten there yet!), as I understand, is thinner and lighter. However, that said, sauce isn't the only thing, and in fact might not be the most important. One thing KC had cheaply and abundantly "way back when" was trees, which meant there was no shortage of wood around for properly smoking meat. Seems to me KC style is centered around slabs of beef that have been slowly roasting over a wood fire pit for most of the day at least. Though the sauce is noticed most often, KC is sort of a crossroads of styles - some places really stress their dry rubs, some baste the meat in sauce all day, some don't add any sauce until it's served. Anyways... I've gone on long enough. Needless to say, this entire paragraph is without proper research, just what I recall off the top of my head. If anyone wants to take what I've written and run with it, go for it! Or, scrap it all and go from scratch. I myself won't have a chance to properly research this for several weeks at least. Still... --Reverend Loki 17:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] But HOW is it cooked?

I have been reading up on the regional variations on barbecue (I never knew it had so many meanings until reading wikipedia)... How exactly is Kansas City-style barbecue cooked? On a barbecue? In a conventional sort of oven? In a smoker? The picture itself looks like an oven-of-sorts. So, can an expert enlighten us please? :-)

Adam —Preceding unsigned comment added by 20.133.0.15 (talk) 12:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)