Talk:Jubal Anderson Early

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Contents

[edit] Edits Jan 05

I recently put in a good bit of work editing this page and see that the edits were reverted back. I have restored the edits. If you would like to discuss specific ones and make changes, please do not throw out a lot of the work that you probably should agree with. The changes included a lot of style, spelling, grammar, and category improvements, plus:

  • Removed copyrighted painting, used in violation of Wikipedia rules.
  • Removed lengthy quotations, which were hardly in the style of an encyclopedia, and covered details way out of proportion to the main thrust of the article.
  • Removed excessive detail and map about Cedar Creek. The place for such info is a page about the battle itself, not a biography of one of the participants. This wasn't even Early's most interesting battle.

big_hal 17:54, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Reverted to this text. The Talk page is not supposed to be the text of the original article

big_hal 18:30, 29 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Photo

I am trying to decide which image to use for The battle box. Which one do you think I should use? --BrenDJ 21:31, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Image:General Jubal Anderson Early small.jpg

Image:JubalEarly.jpeg

The second one is a better photo. I assume you don't mean 'battle box' literally. Hal Jespersen 21:45, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Jubal Early was my great great great great great grandfather - Anthony Fizer

[edit] December 1-3 edits

I have reverted or adjusted several of the recent edits to this article, as follows:

  1. The editorial comment regarding the look on Early's face is inappropriate for an encyclopedia article. The sentence about his embittered attitude did not fit the preceding sentence regarding recruiting infantry regiments.
  2. The description about Monocacy does not comport with the references to this article and deletes some useful information. You will need to provide citations for substantive delays at Harpers Ferry or Lew Wallace having Army of the Potomac troops under his command.
  3. I have restored the brief paragraph on his positive contributions and Bud Robertson's quote about him.
  4. The version of his memoirs that are referenced in the article have different page numbers than the one cited for the lengthy quotation. I have also deleted the un-cited POV regarding the character of the Southern Confederacy.

Hal Jespersen (talk) 01:44, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I have restored the Harpers Ferry Section with a reference to the OR. Historians have long overplayed the battle of Monocacy. It delayed Early for one day. He dawdled at Harpers Ferry for three days before bypassing the small force on MD Hts. At Monocacy, Early was not repulsed, he felt out the Union position, and he defeated Wallace's force with only one division. When Gordon's division went in at Monocacy, it encountered heavy resistance but did not break. Gordon's division was actually outnumbered by Rickets Yankee Division, yet the ramrod Georgian still drove the yanks from the field without aid of the rest of Early's army.
The reference you deleted was from Early's original Early book. It is more appropriate to cite the original text over the reprints. Libbie76

I am going to avoid making changes to the article until we have achieved consensus here on the talk page. In making the changes that you have, you have omitted Early's success in the Valley prior to Monocacy ("... defeated several armies ..."). Also, the reference to the OR merely documents troop movements, it does not offer a secondary source analysis of whether the time was wasted or not and whether this had a substantive effect on the battle. Can you provide a citation by a historian that supports your point of view? The current References to the article do not support the claim that three days were wasted at Maryland Heights. As to your point about the memoirs, you did not provide an actual citation, so I found one that was immediately available, the re-issued text edited by Gary Gallagher. The quotation appears to be the same, so it should not make much difference, but if there is a current version of the earlier work in print, please provide the particulars: title, publisher, year, and ISBN. Hal Jespersen (talk) 18:31, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] December 5 edits

Good idea to discuss here before proceeding. I think this can be a great page. I want to accurately portray Early. I felt that to make claims that weren't true such as winning several victories in the Valley prior to Monocacy would diminish the value of the page. His only battle victory prior to Monocacy came at Lynchburg which is in the Virginia Piedmont on the east side of the Blue Ridge, about sixty miles from the Valley.

I propose we add the following to the beginning of the Valley even though it did not happen in the Valley:

"Lee sent Early with the Second Corps to save Lynchburg, VA, a vital rail and logistics center for the ANV from capture by Union Gen. David Hunter. Early defeated Hunter on June 18, forcing him to retreat into the mountains of West Virginia. Early then advanced down the Valley, crossed the Potomac River and operated around Harpers Ferry and in Western Maryland for several days in early July."

Then go into the Monocacy fight. I do want to emphasize that Early's PRIMARY mission was to divert troops away from Lee at Rich/Petersburg. Threatening Washington was the means to accomplish this. He also had a secondary objective of freeing POW's at Point Lookout which is beyond the scope of this page. I think that I may be getting too much into topics more appropriately discussed on the Monocacy page than under Jubal's page. The point there is that if one day's delay at Monocacy meant failure for Early's campaign, then the loss of three days at HF/MD Hts is 3x as critical. But hey, who wants to read a book called, HF: Futile Maneuvering that Saved Washington. The point is time lost is time lost, regardless of the cause. We tend to focus only on the combat actions and overlook everything else that plays into the big picture. I digress and agree that this is beyond the scope of this page.

Early's first victory in the Shenandoah Valley came on July 18 at Snicker's Gap then a few days later at Kernstown. Both of these were over George Crook, commanding Hunter's former army from the Lynchburg fight. We should probably state that Early held Sheridan in check for more than 40 days before Sheridan was able to defeat him instead of just going into his defeats.

What do you think? I can get the citations for all of this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Liberterian1776 (talk • contribs) 01:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

This is fine. If you are unfamiliar with Wikipedia citation markup (which I infer from your previous edits), feel free to add the general information here or e-mail it to me (see my user page for an e-mail link) and I will get it formatted correctly. My comments regarding victories over several armies will be satisfied if this level of detail is included. Hal Jespersen (talk) 01:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nick

I moved the edit regarding Early's nickname here: ", "My Bad Old Man" (by General Lee)" It can be added back with a cite, either in box (without Lee) or within the body of the article. Kresock (talk) 21:39, 21 May 2008 (UTC)