User:Jtankers

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User: Jtankers

Website: LHCFacts.org

Born: 1965

Occupation: Software Developer, Professional Consultant

Education: BS in Computer Science, 1988

Military History: Commissioned Officer, US Army

Interests: Family, Music, Cosmology, Large Hadron Collider Saftey

Strengths: Problem Solving, Communication Skills

Weaknesses: Obsessive editing of my wikipedia posts

[edit] LHC Facts in Layman's Terms

I am assisting in educating about the potential danger and counter unsupportable public relations statements of "no danger", "don't worry..." concerning operation of the Large Hadron Collider.

Existing safety theories that CERN still tells other physicists and the public have been rejected in writing by CERN's own LHC Safety Assessment Group, who concedes that cosmic rays pass harmlessly through Earth and that micro black holes might be created by the Large Hadron Collider that might not evaporate. CERN reports that a promised new safety theory has been completed, but it has not been released to the public.

The physicists involved, actually a majority of experimental physicists really really want to believe that this type of experimentation is safe, otherwise it could shut down a huge amount of science research.

The problem is that this experiment might be unsafe, actually it might be really really unsafe.

A primary issue is that the energies are so high that the experiment may collapse some particles into 'micro black holes'. (CERN estimates possible creation at a rate of one per second).

If these exotic particles evaporate or grow extremely slowly, then there would be no problem. However several PHDs in Math and Physics and other theoretical sciences (I can provide quotes and links) believe that BOTH might be false. Micro black holes may likely NOT evaporate and they likely might grow relatively QUICKLY.

That might mean that in a matter of just perhaps a few years or decades a single micro black hole could grow so large that it might actually collapse the entire Earth into it.

CERN wishes to start operating the LHC experiment later this year and is planning to release a study that will attempt to prove safety. But it might not be possible. And the fear is that the experiment might go forward anyway, with the hope that it will prove to be safe...

The alternative is hugely negative for the thousands employed by the experiments and who have been working for years to conduct their experiments. Big stakes for careers, science, prestige, funding, etc.

A court case before US Federal Courts to compel reasonable proof of safety has its first hearing on June 16, 2008 in Hawaii.

More information is also available at other sites, including LHCFacts.org and LHCDefense.org (wealth of quotes, links, articles, etc. from independent sources and credible experts).

Cheers, JTankers

A good discussion in layman's terms is available on YouTube. Coast to Coast AM interview and video with Nuclear Physicist Walter L. Wagner: "LHC may cause mini black hole and swallow earth":, part 1 of 4, part 2 of 4, part 3 of 4, part 4 of 4

[edit] Large Hadron Collider Safety Facts

LHCFacts.org

Risk Calculations and Assumptions reasonable quality, short discussion of risks and calculations at Martin Meenagh blog and some related calculations at James Blodgett on Risks Including this assessment:

If the following reasonable and plausible assumptions prove to be correct, then the uncomfortable truth may be that the probability of destruction of Earth could be closer to 100%, far from the often quoted 1 in 50 million, though only mother nature currently knows for certain due to our limited understanding of the physics involved.

A. LHC Creates black holes as CERN Predicted (1 per second) 1.

B. Micro Black holes do not evaporate as LSAG accepts is plausible. 2

C. One or more micro black holes are captured by Earth's gravity as LSAG accepts as plausible. 3

D. Micro Black holes grow exponentially as Dr. Otto E. Rossler's paper predicts and calculates. 4

--Jtankers (talk) 15:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Support

Bill Wwheaton Disputes points A, B and C, I present support for these arguments:

A. LHC Creates black holes as CERN Predicted (1 per second)

STUDY OF POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS EVENTS DURING HEAVY-ION COLLISIONS AT THE LHC

"... we see that the (4 + d) black hole will be produced if M is not much larger than 1 TeV."

The case for mini black holes, CERN Courier

"... the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) could allow it to become a black-hole factory with a production rate as high as about one per second"

B. Micro Black holes do not evaporate as LSAG accepts is plausible.

LHC: what if ... ? Michelangelo Mangano CERN, TH-PH

"At the LHC, some of them will have v<10 km/s, will be gravitationally trapped, and could start growing"

LHCSafetyAssessment.Group@cern.ch Sun 3/16/08 6:06 AM

"... we are not working under teh assumption that BHs decay. ...We are in fact working under the assumption that they are stable"

Dr. Adam D. Helfer Do black holes radiate?

"this prediction rests on two dubious assumptions..."

"no compelling theoretical case for or against radiation by black holes"

Dr. William G. Unruh and Prof. Ralf Schützhold On the Universality of the Hawking Effect

"Therefore, whether real black holes emit Hawking radiation or not remains an open question"

Prof. V.A. Belinski On the existence of quantum evaporation of a black hole

"...the effect [Hawking Radiation] does not exist."

C. One or more micro black holes are captured by Earth's gravity as LSAG accepts as plausible.

LHCSafetyAssessment.Group@cern.ch Sun 3/16/08 6:06 AM

"...probability in 1 per million that the first BH produced in asymmetric collisions will actually have v=0"

D. Micro Black holes grow exponentially as Dr. Otto E. Rossler's paper predicts and calculates.

Bill Wwheaton: "while Ressler predicts (& I agree) that a micro-BH inside the Earth would probably grow exponentially after reaching a certain size"

fyi: Professor Dr. Otto E. Rossler's theory is that when a MBH accretes a charged particle, say electron, this will not go straight into the MBH, but will circulate around the MBH for a while, and by doing this, a magnetic field will be created which will attract positive and negative charged particles, each at the opposite poles of the MBH, thus accelerating the accretion rate. He estimates potentially as few as 50 months from creation to full Earth accretion