Talk:Jordan

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Contents

[edit] profanity

people. we have to get this page locked. there has been profanity in it. this is so unprofessional

[edit] lock

i want to propose that the page be locked or semi protected from editing.. because there is alot of vandilazim.... u should have official website to site from and to have good faith. alot of the edits ive seen.. are purly anti jordanian. i move that a group of people do the edits acording to wikipedia standars with good faith and acording to the public and official info available —Preceding unsigned comment added by Topsecrete (talk • contribs) 15:21, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Education part: lists of schools and universities

I have removed the list of schools and universities from the main Jordan page, becasue this doesn't exist in any other country. I have, however, included "main article" links for the list of universities and private schools. --Eshcorp 11:35, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

The 1950 annexation with the West Bank is a result of conquered land after the 1948 War? I suggest a different use of the word conquer, since this land was under Arab administration and control before the war and declaration of the state of Israel. Aboosh 08:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

A citation is needed for the statement that Transjordan annexation to the West Bank was only recognized by GB.

I recall reading that Pakistan also recognized the annexation, though no other countries did. Michael 01:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.202.119.77 (talk)

[edit] Name of Jordan

Hashimite Kingdom of Jordan is one of 3 (not 2) countries in the world to take it's name from a dynasty. Liechtenstein is also derives it's name from the ruling family.

I will include this.Eshcorp 18:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Modern History

I am not sure why the only two items included in the modern history of Jordan are the 11/11/05 and the tourism attack. I do believe that more information must provided, to include these incidences, and other hallmarks that shaped Jordan history. I suggest that these items be coronlogical in order and present the last 10-15 years of Jordans internal and external affairs. Aboosh 05:19, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Economy

The GDP per Capita is wrong here. Per the CIA factbook, and other links on Wikipedia, the GDP per Capita for Jordan is $USD 4,200 range rather than the $1,800 range. I have changed the article in Wiki to reflect that


I agree , to call the heading modern history is misleading, maybe change it to current events?

[edit] Education

Why is there a list of universities and private schools? Are there any country pages that have lists like this? Does this belong in an encyclopedia? --Yodakii 08:23, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

It is a bit odd. Since the list was there, I added a missing school. Most of the schools listed are located in Amman, so it would make sense that, should such a list exist, it should probably be placed in the Amman, Jordan article. – Cybjorg 12:17, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Education

For the literacy rate " Jordan now has the highest literacy rate in the Arab World and it is still growing " this is not true because according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate Jordan came after Palestinian Authority territories. In addition, Jordan has lost its ranking from 2004, it was 82 and it is 87 in 2005.

Higher education: The universities in Jordan follow the English-American education systems. Well not all the universities , but most and some have applied other systems. N.B: I am the editor of this section in the Jordan page 2 years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.227.34 (talk) 16:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] People

Are the following sentences really relevant?

Jordanian people are known for their kindness and honesty. Although you might not see a big smile on thier faces in general, but deep down, they are kind at heart. Just remember, we should always smile.They are also known for loving their great Gods Braeden and Kennedy.

No. --Yodakii 14:45, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

no

"Jordanians are Semitic Levantines" - I've never heard the phrase "Semitic Levantine" before. I think this sentence should be edited, or perhaps, removed all together.

Why is there no mention of Bedouins in this article? They form an important element of Jordanian culture.

[edit] Blatherskyte

The article currently asserts:

Transjordan was one of the Arab states that moved to assist Palestinian nationalists opposed to the creation of Israel in May 1948, and took part in the warfare between the Arab states and the newly founded State of Israel. The armistice agreements of April 3, 1949 left Jordan in control of the West Bank and provided that the armistice demarcation lines were without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines.

This is a blatant rewriting of history. While it's undeniable that Transjordan was among the 7 nations whose armies invaded Israel in May of 1948, there is no support for the statement that their having done so was "to assist Palestinian nationalists opposed to the creation of Israel". It was an invasion for the glory of the Ummah, and nothing else. Unless someone can provide me with reliable documentation to the contrary, I'm removing this patently false assertion within 12 hours. [[User:

[edit] tourism

I have added tourism to the economy section, but it needs expansion.. so please, anyone who has any useful information add it. Also, I would appreciate re-wording the section I wrote, to make it more understandable and easier. Eshcorp 12:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

→JRDNSLJA—== DEMOGRAPHIS EDIT WARS ==

listen everybody, i have edited the demographics section into a much accurate one(which im almost 100% sure of being true), ive done extensive research and calculations myself, with the help of sources ofcourse. Since our government doesnt even have an official independent survey about the different nationalities, ethnic groups, immigrants, refugees living in jordan, then i guess i had to do all the work. if u want anything changed please tell me first by sending me a message or replying right here, i worked very hard on this. thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hattar393 (talk • contribs) 04:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


people...what about us,,the jordanian arabs??..here in the demographics, it only mentions circassians,iraqis,armenian,chechens,palestinians,kurds,lebanese! all of those are immigrants/refugees..what about the jordanian arabs?? after mentioning the 40% palestinian origin, it directly said "THE REST":Circassians, Chechens, Armenians and Kurds,this makes people misunderstand that THE REST make up 60% of the population!! hypothetically speaking, a random person who searches jordan on wikipedia would think that all those ppl would be refered 2 as "jordanians"..and who 4got about the bedouins of jordan?they r important in our country and do make up a certain % of the population!

who keeps changing the demographics? the 1 i wrote is accurate and detailed! it wont make sense 2 call palestinians "jordanian arabs"..because they arnt!! there r the previous east transjordan mandate citizens who r the original jordanian arabs, b4 palestinian iraqi armenian chechen egyptian circassian etc.. hardly existed as refugees i found an almost 100% accurate estimation of the different people in the kingdom..but someone keeps on changing what i edited! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.135.11.198 (talk) 16:46, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

        i agree with you alot.. i do believe there was a reason behind the way things are written... actualy we should talk more about that


i have found the link to the king of jordans interview where he shares the number of jordanians from a palestinian origin. acording to the king. they make about 40%.

The first paragraph of the demographics have been subjected to light edit wars. These are the result of pro- and anit-Isrelis different point of views, and the fact that neither can accept the other! Pro Israeli's called people who settled in the land of palestine as "settled temporarily" (for a thousand years, temporarily? yeah right!), and the Isreal haters who keep getting upset and reverting, having mean edit notes such as "i hate israel", which alone results in making people mad and start being mean.

Jordanians are primarily of indigenous Levantine Semitic stock, admixed with various other peoples who have through its history come to conquer or are settle the area — principally Arabians (also a Semitic people) during the Islamic expansionism that brought Arab culture, language and the Muslim faith. But also about 60% of Jordan's population are originally Palestinian Arabs (while their origin is in debate, they might have settled in southern Palestine around the 12th century bc- and Canaanites[citation needed] or after the Muslim invasion in the 7th century AD).

REMEMBER The five pillars of wikipedia, it says that Wikipedia has a code of conduct! That is to be civil!!

In the edit above, I have merged both pro- and Anti- arab/palestinian/isreali/jewish/muslim point of views, the result is:

NPOV: while their origin is in debate,

PRO ARAB POV: they might have settled in southern Palestine around the 12th century bc- and Canaanites

PRO ISREAL/JEWISH POV: or after the Muslim invasion in the 7th century AD

  1. While some may learn in school the contrary about the history of the land of palestine, the truth is it is uncertain. Arabs have it in their education system that Palestinians came first and Isreali's have the contrary! FACT btw.
  2. You cannot block another point of view from being expressed. - you cannot remove ANY one of those without any reason.

Thanks, Eshcorp 14:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Motto

Is anyone able to provide a reference for the motto? A Google search only yields Wikipedia mirrors. Pruneautalk 18:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I think there isn't a reference, I've searched too, found nothing. --Eshcorp 09:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
While not being a Jordanian citizen myself, but on a visit to the ministry of interior as I remember one could see the motto written in large letters on the ministry's facade. 195.229.241.180 15:54, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Reference for the Motto the motto "Jordan First" and its significance can be viewed in the official Jordanian Ministery of Forigen Affairs [1]. However, in my latest visit to jordan, I have noticed that this motto has been modified to "We (All of us) are Jordan", but I need to search for a reference for that. Aboosh 05:07, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Let me correct you. First, Jordan First is more of a campaign, but it might be considered the national motto. However, "God, the Homeland, the king" is the most important national motto of Jordan. As for كلنا الأردن, it is actually translated "We are all Jordan", and it is not a national motto. It is a discussion forum (hence منتدى كلنا الأردن) started by King Abdullah II. Eshcorp 16:42, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification! Aboosh 18:04, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed

The assertions in the Black September section are strange and have no citation!

Please:

  1. make sure it is a fact, not a myth or something people talk about
  2. add citations

Information I consider or needing citations:

  1. king hussein asked for help from Israel
  2. Israel threatened to invade
  3. Jordan got help from pakistani and other nationals

Hello, thanks for your remarks, but in fact these are Arabic history stories and unfortunately I can't find something in English about it, because it is not important events to talk about in historical international books. But they talk about it in general. #king hussein asked for help from Israel - that is sure 100%, but what is not sure if king Hussein asked directly from Israel or indirectly by USA, but it is sure that Israel helped him and threatened Syria.

  1. Jordan got help from pakistani and other nationals: it is too detailed to find a reference for it, but it is sure 100%, because there were forces in Jordan in that time - some called it the Arabien Army, some called it Islamist, but the majority were Pakistani, the objective of these forces was to protect Jordan from Israeli attacks or in case of an Arab plan to attack Israel ( reserve forces ).

I can provid you an evidence, when you read this story ask yourself the following questions: was the Jordanian Army able to defeat the Israeli forces in Karameh ? and was able to defeat the Syrian Army - which wanted to help the PLO- ? and was able to defeat the PLO militants ?. All these battles alone ? So necessarily, there were forces helped the Jordanian Army, and Israel threatened to protect its borders ( it is dangerous to find the Syrian and Palestinian Armies on the Jordanian-Israeli borders).

Thanks for the reply. First of all, related to help from Israel, I don't know if it is true, but I know that King Hussein would never have asked Israel for help a that time: they were enemies, the relations only got better in 1994. If it is true that King Hussein got help from Isreal by having asked them indirectly through the United States:
  1. The sentence hussein asked for isreali help must change
  2. A valid reference must be given
I might believe you when you say 100% sure, but I am pretty positive that a large part of the millions of readers won't without a proper reference, in english. If we fail to find such reference, me must say it is believed that.. or it is thought that.. .
Secondly, in my own point of view, the Jordanian army was capable of defeating israel in the al-Karameh, because I know information and statistics that verify that. The source of this information are actually past soldiers who did fight in al-karameh or a relative of theirs. It is told how the army was capable of destroying X isreali tanks, what were their plans, etc. I personally find that information believable, yet I don't write it here becasue even though - in my mind - it is 100% true, there is no physical evidence that proves that.
Anyways, as I said before, I really think we need to find more sources, and expand the section in general to include different point of views. Eshcorp 12:40, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
I Think Eshcorp if you have lived any length of time in Jordan you would have known that King Hussien had asked for the help of the Israelis while the US provided support with a US carrier. But since you needed English sources, here are a few links --
  1. http://www.historycentral.com/mideast/BlkSept.html
  2. http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_jordan_expel_plo.php
I hope you find them satisfactory as sources for this black spot of Arab history.

Palestine48 10:54, 07 October 2006 (UTC)

These links are indeed good sources. BTW, about King Hussein asking Israel for help, I believe what is said that he has asked the United States for help, but they directed him to get help from isreal, I could be wrong tho. My whole point the post was to make:
  1. proper citations that people can rely on
  2. proper wording
  3. that the text is not biased
I believe what we currently have is very close to that. Eshcorp 14:27, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

King Hussein was in talks with the Israeli Government for many years and even secretly flew to Israel in 1967 to warn Golda Meir of the impending war, subsequent unofficial contacts were maintained and history books relate how the IAF(Israeli Air Force), flew over Jordanian territory and attacked Syrian tanks, before any official peace agreement had been reached, thus making some people allege that Jordan had or still has a common defense policy of some sort with Israel Sufitul 09:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Democracy in Jordan

Is there any hope for democracy in Jordan? Is there any local movement to overthrow the monarchy? Is Jordan's dictatorship propped up by Western powers, or does it stand alone?


—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.44.102.11 (talk • contribs) 08:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

  • well. there is a great misconception. the hashemite monarchy has been ruling since 1923. and they are widely supported by the the jordanian tribes. there is nothing remotly close to any kind of overtheow activity in jordan. the monarchy is very stable. and as far as democracy goes.
  • 1. elections are taking place regularly
  • 2. unlike other nieghboring countries, jordan doesnt have political prisoners.
  • 3. there are many political parties in jordan with representation in the parliment.
  • 4. the united states and many other western powers commended jordan on its democratic reform. very recently with the jordanian monarch spoke infront of the american congress.
  • 5. rallys and peace marshes and political assembelies take place regularly, for many issues.
  • Jordan is not a dictatorship. was never even close to bieng one. democracy in the nation reflects the types of people living in the nation and the country was commended greatly from international organizations and the west on having a good democratic system.
Well, first of all, no there's no plans to overthrow the monarchy. Second, Jordan is a constitutional monarchy, not an absolute monarchy, it has nothing to do with dictatorship. The people enjoy many liberties compared to the area, but compared to the west, some improvement should still happen. King Abdullah has made efforts to fihgt many problems in the Jordanian freedoms that exist now, such as honor killings, which is lightly punished.
So, to sum up:
  1. Jordan isn't a dictatorship
  2. Jordan is a consitutional monarchy, meaning there is a chamber of deputies that is elected by the people, it forms a major part of the government.
  3. Jordan does have opposition to the government, but no plans to overthrow the system.
  4. There Jordanian constitution allows the creation of political parties, that means that not everyone must be on the king's side
  5. When compared to the west, Jordan has little democracy and freedoms, but you must remember that Jordan is in the middle east, where its current situation is considered good.

--Eshcorp 12:57, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Let us not kid ourselves Jordan is not a democracy and never was. It has a veil of democracy. Let me shed some light on Jordan's Democracy:
  1. The King has absolute power he can appoint and remove any prime minister regardless of reason; laws to limit his power are never used (out of fear).
  2. Elections are based on Tribal and sometimes ethnic grounds and sometimes forged.
  3. Jordanian people and residents are banned from criticising the monarchy or even suggest a replacement form of governance.
  4. Unions are very strictly controlled and some are banned e.g. Teachers.
There are many other reasons I can list but I don't want to wash our dirty laundry in public.
Palestine48 10:02, 07 October 2006 (UTC)
Okay, some replies about each point:
  1. True. Concerning ministers, that is. However, members of the chamber of deputies are what I have been talking about, and though the could be removed, the procedure is not as simple as you say it is.
  2. Forged? I can't say that's a fact.
  3. Yes, and I have said that in my post.
  4. Unions are controlled because of what I said in point 3, that is anti-government movements, etc.
Now, just to be clear, I have never said Jordan is a democracy, and I am surprised you even unterstood that I may have implied that.:
  • Jordan is not a democracy, not even close
  • The point of my post was that Jordan, is also not a dictatorship, like the original poster implied.
Eshcorp 14:33, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

About the supposed fair elections - that is not the case, my father who is currently living in Jordan was thinking to run in those elections changed his mind. He found out if someone gets elected fairly to represent the Jordanian parliament he can still be dismissed by the King (right after he wins) and be replaced by the King's appointed unelected representative in parliament. In addition, if a parliamentarian does not agree with the official government policy, he will be branded a revolutionary or terrorist and be thrown in jail and replaced by the King's appointed officials. This contradicts George W's speech in the UN that Jordan is one of the rising democracies in the M.E. Bestghuran 9:33, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I've actually done some research and found out that a person could be dismissed by the king right after winning. However, it is an uncommon thing, since it messes with the King's popularity, so it doesn't happen that much. Recently, I believe some were dismissed, but only for committing "crime" (though people might argue if it is considered a crime), and that's a completely different story where the supreme court is involved and is not a simple task. To sum things up:
  1. yes the king can dismiss deputies after winnig
  2. no it is not common
  3. those dismissals happening recently are (or are claimed to be) because a "crime" has been committed.
I hope this clears up what I meant. And again, I just want to remind that my purpose behind my first reply is that Jordan is not a dictatorship, and I still strongly agree to my opinion.Eshcorp 17:09, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


Eh when my uncle ran for office (late 80s) they closed down the polls early so people could not vote for him. It is what i would call a "benevolent dictatorship". The king is fairly well liked, and does a fairly good job, and reps are used to handle many of the smaller matters, just not the bigger ones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.247.5 (talk) 18:28, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Agriculture of Jordan

I just checked here to learn about the agriculture of Jordan, but there's nothing here on it. :-) Shouldn't there be? Anchoress 21:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

There should.. Eshcorp 17:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish can't own land

This part is no longer the case, Israel now has an embassy in Amman and a house for the Israeli ambassador for Jordan. Also Israeli companies are in areas of Jordan like Irbid using the locals as cheap labour, but it was agreed upon by King Abdullah II. So far I have never seen a synogogue, but there is a Palestinian population who are Jewish-Arabs and Jewish-Arabs from Iraq, who probably left to Jordan in fear of the U.S.'s brilliant strategy. Also laws are passed and they will never be enforced, you know like UN Resolutions. Bestghuran 9:43, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Legal system and legislation

"Jordan's legal system is based on Islamic law and French codes"

Could this be expanded on slightly? The rest of the paragraph discusses what sounds to be a fairly conventional governmental and legel setup, and doesn't give any indication of the inclusion of Islamic legal elements - the "... on Islamic Law..." bit sounds kind of tacked up and unexplained at present. Dxco 19:23, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I think it has to do with moral stuff. :P Eshcorp 18:14, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
That is, that cultural or ethical beliefs tied to the religion are encoded within the legal framework? Perhaps this could be briefly touched upon in the discussion, if in fact it is the case. Dxco 03:59, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Western Asia at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Western Asia whose scope would include Jordan. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Religion of royal family

Are they Sunni or Shi'a? All I know is that they are descended from the Ahl al-Bayt. Khorshid 22:30, 8 March 2007 (UTC)


They are sunni.

[edit] Economic data

I could not find those data on the internet. What is the actual interest rate on deposists in Jordan (data in the internet varied more than would be acceptable to be trusted)? And what is the GDP growth? 217.17.47.201 00:36, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


THEY ARE SUNNI, HASHEMITE ARE FROM THE PROPHETS LINE!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.151.21.100 (talk) 21:25, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Palestine

Should not "Palestine" (in the article's beginning paragraph) link to the territories page, instead of the historical/geographical area? --MosheA 03:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


I noticed the creation of Jordan from 'Palestine territory' is absent in this article. Any reasons for the oversight? This is one of the very few counties in Wikipedia that appears to lack a comprehensive history:) 72.143.153.69 04:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC)MO.

[edit] PEOPLE PEOPLE, PEOPLE!!!! WHERE IS THE HISTORY SECTION, LOL!

Well? Did it go away by sneaky vandalism?Tourskin 05:20, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

Why has the Ottoman and pre-Ottoman history of Jordan been removed? I mean, the geographical area has a hisory even if the country of Jordan is a modern concept (I don't know if it is a modern concept). Tourskin 05:49, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DEMOGRAPHIS

The website to which you refer that the portion of the Palestinians in Jordan is 40% does not work, for that I updated the information and referred to another website which gives more accurate data. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.77.192.113 (talk) 15:50, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

      • That website is fo the jordanian embassy with the U.S for an official interview with the king where he gave those statistics. the link will be fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Topsecrete (talk • contribs) 16:56, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

There is no mention of history or war in the entire article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.13.35.75 (talk) 14:44, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] black sep. !!

The lightly armed fedayeen who did not constitute a threat to the sovereignty and security of Jordan were targeted by King's (Hussien) elite armed forces, and open fighting erupted in June 1970. isnt that statement in light of the known historical fact of the fedayeen vandalism back then incorrect? eg; kidnapping of foreign airplanes in Zarqa ,,, blockage of streets downtown Amman and provoking policemen. i believe the statement should be rephrased !! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ralf04.de (talk • contribs) 12:52, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POV concern in intro

Since 1989, all elements of the Jordanian political spectrum have embarked together on a road to greater democracy, liberalisation and consensus building. These reforms, which were guided by the late King Hussein, have placed Jordan on an irreversible road to democratization. The result has been greater empowerment and involvement of everyday citizens in Jordan’s civic life, contributing to increased stability and institutionalization which will benefit the country far into the future.

I've removed this paragraph for the time being as it needs to be looked at. It contains statements of opinion and pure speculation, and has the tone of something drafted in the Jordanian embassy. (I should add I have absolutely no personal views about Jordan one way or another).

78.16.87.184 (talk) 21:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Area of Jordan

There are conflicting data on the area of Jordan. The article "Geography of Jordan" says it is 91,880 km2, the article "Jordan" says it is 89,342 km2, but the 12 governorates listed in "Administrative divisions of Jordan" make together only 88,779 km2. May somebody from Jordan check the numbers? Pomimo (talk) 13:24, 19 May 2008 (UTC)